Finding chi

[Anonymous]

Hi all,
I have been with the Energy Training Circle for over a year now. Currently entering into the realms of Yang Classic Style programme.
As I read the Forums in most cases I am absolutely lost with info given and asked for. Me, I have a very basic problem “How does one get to circulate Chi in the first place?”
AS said, I have followed and practiced regularly all modules received in past year, including 5 Keys by Paul Cavell (not entered into this query in 5 Keys Forum, yet!), all without success with regard to feeling of Chi Circulation. I appreciate this is my problem somewhere, maybe alignments? However It would be really good if someone could offer some advice here.
This has now come to a head (again), having just re – watched Qigong Session 5 module ” Etheric Field Exercise” Now what I would like to know is how/what one has to do to begin too feel energy between hands etc.?
I have kept at practices, will continue to do so, but it seems to me I am never going to get anywhere with remaining modules unless somehow I can generate chi, which is what, after all ,the whole idea is about.
I know there is something I am not doing correctly, any guidance to help resolve this VERY BASIC problem would be gratefully received.
David Castle

[Anonymous]

Feeling energy between the hands is one of the first exercises I was shown to illustrate the existence of qi. (I was young back then. )

The idea is to not to do anything, but just let it happen. In my experience, be relaxing and holding the hands opposite each other, most people will start to feel the energy rather quickly.

It might help or hinder (just try it) if you intent to form an energy ball between the hands.

Also, I found that the feeling is much stronger if one does it right after Tai Chi or Qi Gong practice.

So much for my experience. I hope it helps.

[Anonymous]

Hi David,
I understand your feeling and problem in trying to learn something while at the same time finding no feed back or guide as to know what is the progress- or maybe there is no progress? It will be good if there is more posting on the forum so that we can have more idea about what we are doing and to know where we stand. I think I am in this Energy Arts group around the same time as you. I join the 5 keys program in 2013. Let me make some replies as my thought wonder around the topic and pardon me if I don’t write well for I have practically not write anything for over 20 years and I am not familiar with computer and more or less do not type at all (only letter by letter).

You are in the Training Circle which is for those who are familiar with qigong and are seeking to improve or enhance their qigong. Typically you should have a few years of practice first. However what you are doing is still useful and if what is taught is a bit out of reach you can always KIV and come back to it later.

I have been going through books and and the internet and find that Bruce’s teaching very real and genuine (being a Taoist master and not just qigong or taiji master makes a lots of difference) so if you have no result you just have to be patience and maybe pay more attention to the basic foundation. Funny thing in qigong is that those that looks interesting and real are usually false or improper arts and those who teach the real art are boring and often do not really teach at all in the sense that it is not suited for modern day learning environment. In this respect Bruce is the best in the sense that he teach the real thing and take the trouble to explain clearly. Please note that, even so I still find a few places in the books not very clear and I think many people have not understand the books properly. Take for example the Opening the energy gates book is pack with fundamental information and the same book is also good up to very high level training. Many people might treat it as beginner’s material which it is not. The book have more guidance that in the 5 keys, although the 5 keys video have its advantage in that the movement are shown clearly and Paul brings one through the movement in very effective way. Incidentally, the video help us to see whether we are doing the movement correctly. I hope this line of thought could help to guide you in your practice. Having training in a real life group helps to put you in correct and proper mood and the qi which is in us and around us is stronger and more helpful.

Since the clearing energy gate book is so good, I will recap the book in my own view (beginner status). 1. Breathing is taught and we should do that whether seriously in half an hour practice or at least keep that in mind in all qigong practice. It increase qi, move internal organs and activate lower dantian. 2.Standing qigong which is also call zhan zhuang is a complete practice by itself and is actually fully taught in the following way:— alignment and relaxation of body-which is to facilitate the free movement of qi,—- sinking qi- most important qi movement for that keep us healthy and strong,—- dissolving qi -this is Bruce speciality and it keep the qi free and clean, this technique carries forward into inner dissolving when Bruce start to introduce spiritual meditation. In theory, standing is a pure and high level qigong practice because when we stand for an hour or two (20 mins is enough for a lower level) we relief ourselves of the body in the sense that the body is light like not being there, the consciousness is just mind and qi.We hold different posture for different qi activities. Since we are not in the habit of detaching our feeling for our body and its muscle and focus on qi or experience qi manifestation, the next best thing is to do qigong forms and slowly get connected to qi activities that way. I nearly forgot the energy gate which is the title of this book. Many taiji master recommend standing posture in the taiji routine and when standing one important function is opening all the joints between bones and Bruce go into more details in pointing out the energy gates residing in the joints. Especially the major joints. 3-cloud hands, which taught many qi functions. Start from the leg and focus on something until you get a feel for it or when you simply want a change but try to keep repeating like Paul mention in the 5 keys that you keep polishing to get the shine. Focus on the energy spiralling, the energy flowing in hand and leg, the kua opening , the whole waist freeing up or just focus on dantian and feel the whole body moving fron dantian. 5. The spine stretch which is also dissolving the spine- this movement is the basis for marriage of heaven and, Gods playing in the and all body movement in the sense that the spine is the centre of the body movement. 4.-The 3 swings in which there is much refinement and it takes some practices before there is enough qi in the body to cause the third swing to be smooth and the hand to be floating under qi energy.

You mention not feeling anything when you imagine holding a ball between your hand, I thought almost everybody can have that sensation. In the Dragon and Tiger Medical qigong book 2, there are many chapters on feeling this qi and also many other ways of experience qi. Go to that book and keep reading carefully to get the sense or feel of what Bruce mean in the book. Difference people will experience things differently, postures and movement activates people different. I do the dragon and tiger first movement, I felt qi as energy sensation under my heel mostly and also if I stir the energy under my leg. (think of it as gaseous magnetic feeling ) I thought of energy as flowing up and down the body but have no such sensation so far. However there was once when I lie reclined reading and I was thinking of the movement and so I causally run my hand up and down the body and then I felt a full flow of energy up and down the body. Maybe being in reclined position the body and muscle remain relaxed and that enable the mind to engage the qi and for the mind to switch mood to be conscious of qi. To feel qi, the mind must switch mood just as when we sit in a cinema hall and watch cinema. If we insist on knowing our body, hand and leg as present then we are not going to see the show properly. We switch to cinema consciousness to enjoy the show, all the while the body is forgotten. Maybe that is how the mind need to relax and forget the body to go into qi exercise. Qi is subtle while the cinema screen is physical and gross but the mind have to focus or pay attention in the same way. Maybe you can try doing qigong movement in lying down position and see if you are more relaxed and just for a change of feeling.

When we do physical exercise we get a workout and become healthier but all physical exercise is also using up and wearing out the body. In qi exercise the qi body gets healthy and stronger there is no wearing out of qi. Qi is like stem cell which rejuvenate the body fundamental in many way and give overall health.

I have some ideas, relaxation is stress over and over again in qigong and taiji and everywhere but the fact is that it really takes some time (long time) for this old life long habit to be changed. Enjoy the exercise for if not, the body is probable not relaxed. Checked that you are doing correctly which is not so difficult, and then keep repeating or polishing, it takes some patience here.

Relax and enjoy,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

…….continued>>
Thanks again and every success with your practices
David Castle

[Anonymous]

Just to comment upon the line:

<<>>

I find that what I thought of as relaxation, once I achieved some of it, wasn’t what I thought it was. -And as time goes by, the feeling of the physical (let alone- ‘qi’) isn’t what we think it is… its actually quite a bit different (outside the box, things we didn’t previously have ‘words-thoughts’ for .. smooth, even, open, full– as much as qi-flowing..
What that actually feels like, as inch a bit more towards Expressing it, is a revealation.. and then a bit more..

all the terms given: a sense of warmth, tingling, a ‘magnetic-type’ repulse- etc. all these are things that are analogies (my lil opinion), and things that go-along-with. (qi can ‘affect’ the fluids, espec blood, and thus we feel circulation increase, thus warmth or tingling, or movement.. but that is indirectly- like having no contact with “the wind” and only seeing the leaves stir, the grasses wag back and forth.. but what the wind ‘moves’ isn’t the wind.. (and then there is getting a sense, not of the blowing- as that is still the “air” being moved.. is there is wind beyond/beneath that?)

---

thus less a noticing something that is in our experience, or if not sense one is “doing it wrong” but developing an ability-expansion… to sense and integrate aspects that weren’t previously in our awareness.. even though it was there.

as a fellow E-Arts cert instructor I knew had said, after yrs of practicing, that he felt he couldn’t feel chi < even thought standing near when he practiced, others could feel his chi-flow.. and even he recognized, Indirectly, that it must be, as the evidence for it- pulsing-integraton-engagement, lengthen/twisting, beyond a phy movement, but the body moving as if driven by some "energy-flow"…. yet he didn't think he could feel it. Then finally one day (at a chi-gung-retreat), he commented, ah.. I think I know the chi-feeling.. I think I had been feeling that.. (but it required an expansion inside.. to create the room, the space, for it to be and become a part of his experience… )

For some longer than others to sense/recognize (the threshold may require one to have a strong-qi flow, vs others may feel a subtle-lighter-qi flow.. just like say working with the spine, some progress quickly, as their spine wasn’t bound up as much.. others, who may have a really bound-up spine, may take longer.. more of a foundation being set..

. Thus shorter or longer- more an issue if on the right track (customized fdbk from one that embodies the qualities you seek one day to have, not just any instructor.. getting fdbk from them about what you are doing, as well as your system “non-verbally” reading their system) ..

and as you develop, you will likely shift who/what you seek to become (and thus change who you need seek out and learn from [ the right practitioner, whether they are a full-time instructor or not, but one who knows, just a few comments/a few “tweaks” can make quite a difference for quite a while….

[Anonymous]

Hello Daniel,
I am absolutely astonished at the amazing reply you have sent to my query. Thank you, very much for your time, thoughts & consideration in writing letter. I have been a member of the Energy Circle for eighteen months or so now ( including Paul’s 5 Keys). Are you sure you aren’t a staff member of the Circle ? If not, why not?
Often read Forums for help with the problems I have. Unfortunately, nearly all correspondence is much further upstream, except Bruce’s Q & A’s and in Paul’s 5 Keys. I know this all takes time (lot’s of it!), but I had thought by now I might have progressed a little. Hard to understand in some of Forum letters how some students appear to have “chi running like water all down their body” in like a couple of months study period. I must have it all very wrong?
I have enjoyed all of material received in EC and yes, Bruce’s videos and explanation are great. Have kept up with all advice and lessons, always hoping the “Chi” is waiting around the corner. No doubt about it, you really do need a GOOD hands on teacher.
You refer to the Energy Gates, thanks, which I intend to purchase. Reminds me that about 15 – 16 yrs ago I came across a very good book “The Way of Energy” written by Master Lam Kam Chuen. Intro to Zhan Zhuang ( Nei Gong?), standing practices, philosophy etc. Very well done and in great detail. The point is, not having any idea about chi, as I now have from many different sources, I studied (obviously not well enough!), the Ba Duan Jin and moved on into Standing Exercises, even some of the “advanced!” I followed this daily for over a year, holding positions for minimum of 20 – 30 minutes with no problem like, low back ache etc. Neither do I ever get aches after Tai chi (Yang) forms. (I should add here that I was very much more active then! I still practice Tai Chi forms). Now, take 5 Keys for example, I can stand for 20 – 30 minutes, but lower back hurts like hell! Maybe, previously, in ignorance the Zhan Zhuang was more a physical achievement for me? Of late I think I have been concentrating so hard to do the right thing I’m getting lots of problems. Always returning to square one, Alignments and trying again.
Daniel, thanks for the wealth of information and ideas in your response. I shall take them all onboard and work on each one, alongside Bruce’s Energy Gates and Classic Tai Chi course material, maybe I’ll get a little energy from somewhere?……………..just to finish, you wrote with ref to Standing “when we stand for…………the body is light like not being there….”.The book I mentioned above has some wonderful poetry in it. All based on trees. This is the last verse from “Standing as A Tree “by Master Wang Xiang Zhai “You stand, seeing a tree in the distance. . There is nothing but empty sky between the tree and you. You are both silent. Your eyes are completely at peace and a faint smile is all you sense. Your body is asleep. Your mind is alert.”
Will have to be my maxim I guess! Thanks once again Daniel. Very much.
David

[Anonymous]

Hi Taokua B,

You are absolutely right and nice of you to share your experience.

Relaxation is very subjective and often we thought we are relaxed but it is not enough in qigong exercise. Bruce spent quiet a lot of time in Taiji Mastery program to show what is relaxation. He talk about the body being held up by the skeleton and ligaments and qi. It is more like the skeleton support the muscle and not the other way round. The ligaments have elastic quality and retends memory. We need to relax and lengthen the ligaments as well as opening the joints. We are so much aware of the muscle and we overly developed the muscle until it becomes a hindrance. We can just forget the muscle when we try to relax. When ligament is lengthen and relaxed the joints are opens and qi flows freely while we feel light, easy and is quick and strong. Relaxation in qigong term is a training process a gradual improvement and not some adjustment or simple switching mood. Relaxation is something to keep working on for years.

I agree that qi cannot be felt or sensed or define definitely. It goes beyond human or this physical world to be comprehend-able, it is explained as beyond this world in Hindu and I supposed in Taoist religious philosophy. It is part of our body as much as spirit and soul is part of our body. We work with it and recognise it by the effects it has on the body. During exercise we look for the immediate effects which is difficult and can be unreliable. Fortunately most of the time it is pleasant and does indicate qi activities. Some might not have a lots of feeling even while he is actually moving his qi very well. We might not know the qi but when we practice we need to have the proper intention that relates us to the qi or the exercise. We put our mind in receptive mood and tune in to qi with activities which relates us to the qi, we slow down our action and make circular moves, feel spiralling qi, flow qi from one leg to another, we condense, absorbs and discharge,we open and close and do the action being mindful of how the qi will be.

I come to the conclusion that it is more useful to be aware of the qi’s longer term effect on the body and mind. We should know after the exercise if we are feeling better and in the longer run if our health has improved. For older people the effect on health can be quite quickly apparent. I am 66 and after about 1 year of practice a lots of unhealthy signs goes away, such as:- thinning hair, tire or uncomfortable eye
a chronic liver congestion, a strange nerves sensation along the thigh, tight shoulder joint, weak and sometime achy teeth, weak foot condition. Generally the body feel more solid and fluid, flexible or balance. I think this should be enough good indication of the exercise effect, but to be sure sometimes I still wonder If I am doing correctly ..Young people should feel better in spirit, energy and more life.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

Hi Taokua B,

You are absolutely right and nice of you to share your experience.

Relaxation is very subjective and often we thought we are relaxed but it is not enough in qigong exercise. Bruce spent quiet a lot of time in Taiji Mastery program to show what is relaxation. He talk about the body being held up by the skeleton and ligaments and qi. It is more like the skeleton support the muscle and not the other way round. The ligaments have elastic quality and retends memory. We need to relax and lengthen the ligaments as well as opening the joints. We are so much aware of the muscle and we overly developed the muscle until it becomes a hindrance. We can just forget the muscle when we try to relax. When ligament is lengthen and relaxed the joints are opens and qi flows freely while we feel light, easy and is quick and strong. Relaxation in qigong term is a training process a gradual improvement and not some adjustment or simple switching mood. Relaxation is something to keep working on for years.

I agree that qi cannot be felt or sensed or define definitely. It goes beyond human or this physical world to be comprehend-able, it is explained as beyond this world in Hindu and I supposed in Taoist religious philosophy. It is part of our body as much as spirit and soul is part of our body. We work with it and recognise it by the effects it has on the body. During exercise we look for the immediate effects which is difficult and can be unreliable. Fortunately most of the time it is pleasant and does indicate qi activities. Some might not have a lots of feeling even while he is actually moving his qi very well. We might not know the qi but when we practice we need to have the proper intention that relates us to the qi or the exercise. We put our mind in receptive mood and tune in to qi with activities which relates us to the qi, we slow down our action and make circular moves, feel spiralling qi, flow qi from one leg to another, we condense, absorbs and discharge,we open and close and do the action being mindful of how the qi will be.

I come to the conclusion that it is more useful to be aware of the qi’s longer term effect on the body and mind. We should know after the exercise if we are feeling better and in the longer run if our health has improved. For older people the effect on health can be quite quickly apparent. I am 66 and after about 1 year of practice a lots of unhealthy signs goes away, such as:- thinning hair, tire or uncomfortable eye
a chronic liver congestion, a strange nerves sensation along the thigh, tight shoulder joint, weak and sometime achy teeth, weak foot condition. Generally the body feel more solid and fluid, flexible or balance. I think this should be enough good indication of the exercise effect, but to be sure sometimes I still wonder If I am doing correctly ..Young people should feel better in spirit, energy and more life.

Best regards,
Daniel

[Anonymous]

Hello David,
Glad you find my thoughts useful. I am not any staff menber but someone who think that EnergyArts materials outstanding and am enjoying sharing what I found.There is another place, http://www.livingstillness.se by Daniel Skyle who wrote much about Bruce and qigong where I find we share the same sentiment. It is worth reading, check it out.

The part about qi flow like water running down the body is also quoted in the book. Bruce have mention it kind of casually and I think it should have been written more clearly. If it is something that most of us can expect to experience than he could have given more details like how much practising we will take to get there. A guess a lots of these uncertainty causes people to loose sight and cannot figure out what is outer dissolving.

Waiting for chi might not be the right attitude, for all you know chi might be moving nicely in your case. Anyway the whole body is all chi which is fully alive, it is only that we are trying to upgrade it. I think a better attitude during the exercise is to be concern that we are doing it more or less correctly and then we just have to relax and do the repetition like we are polishing a car. I think if you do the cycling hand as in 5 keys, you can be sure chi is flowing nicely, whether you feel it or not. I feel the chi and hand and fingers pulsing in this movement from the first day of practise until today. The qi flow out the outside of the arm and hand and come back round the finger tips and the inside of the hand. Circling hand is taught very thoroughly in 5 keys. This is the C-curve in advance qigong sets and is the bow in bend the bow. Straightening the spine is the shooting arrow and as the name suggest a lots of chi energy is condensed and released in the movement.

I have a few of Master Lam’s books too and I agree it is well done and informative but it is not detail enough for guaranteeing result in the practice. Bruce’s books on energy gates and dragon and tiger qigong is the most detailed in the market. It is more like a practice manual and it is good to be so. You mentioned about back ache and suspect misalignment, for which Bruce use to say check your alignment form the angle to knee to pelvis by seeing to it that when you stand on it, there is a bounce or spring all along the from bottom of leg to top of thigh. If you feel uncomfortable or not so bouncy than you can check it out to improve the alignment. He mention that when doing posture standing and you felt pain then the chi is not flowing properly. The pelvis and waist is an area that is liable to be tight and to pull the spine or leg out of alignment. I think cloud hand movement train the kua to move sideways and also to turn the pelvis which should help to open the pelvis and free up the misalignment somehow. The circling hand movement should help in straightening the spine. (spine stretch in the energy gate qigong will be very helpful too). There is so much that helps to improve the back and if your back is not better, then maybe you have not really do your 5 keys homework ?

If you are do taiji, there is holding posture(few minutes) during taiji routine and also individual taiji posture standing (20 mins). Bruce say if you want to be strong, standing makes you very strong. You can have your standing and a good taiji workout at the same time.

Relax and enjoy,
Daniel

i

[Anonymous]

Hello Daniel,
Thanks for your guidance and help here. Absolutely agree with the point on losing sight of the main objective, when there is so much material around with so many differing ideas and suggestions. I am now firmly fixed in the Energy Arts program. Because I never resolved my initial problem, over a year ago, often find it uphill. This would be due to the fact, to be honest, as Bruce has said, having been practicing Yang Tai Chi forms (Physical type!) for many years, I jumped the gun on a number of initial practices . Live in hope that when I attend a seminar, to be held by Bruce in the UK end of the year, I can really get professional help to sort this out.
Thanks to your very helpful replies and advice I have seriously considered where I am going wrong. To me alignments appear & feel OK, no tightness anywhere, except aching in the back. I am beginning to think this is self inflicted, similar to doing heavy work in the garden, sitting down for the evening and when you get up having back ache, due to build up of lactic acids etc. In my case I complete quite a heavy stretching programme of exercises before standing. The kind of programme I used to do over 40 yrs ago!! Beginning to believe I am overdoing the stretching at 75 yrs, hence low back ache ? I’m working on it!
Have not yet acquired Bruce’s books on Energy Gates, Dragon and Tiger qigong, mainly because postage to me from the USA is almost same price as books! I shall wait until I get back to UK when I might be able to purchase both locally. Talking of books, whilst searching the web I came across this one:
Secrets of the Pelvis for Martial Arts by Michael Buhr.
A practical guide for improving your Wujifa, Taiji, Xingi, Bagua and everyday life…..Very well written and informative in great detail. The book also has an amazing wealth of links and information with brilliant diagrams in great detail. I think it would be very useful for many interested in the above arts…..especially on Standing Position?? I think, if you haven’t already read it you would find it very interesting and informative. As I feel many other students would.
Take care, happy & successful practice

[Anonymous]

Hi David, Earlier this year I could barely get of my bed due to lower back pain. Fortunately I found an excellent local chiropractor. A good one is a thousand times better than bad ones. Word of mouth from a few locals helped find him, he never advertises since he does not have to.

DVDs by Gary Kraftsow were very helpful to me. At 75 I could not make any suggestions but they are worth taking a look at. They can be found on Amazon, or if you get on the publishers ,Pranamaya, mailing list you will find they discount their DVDs often and can view DVD samples. I find yoga and nei gong help each other and san ti has really helped me all around.

The book “The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook” by Davies helped me resolve a knee and calf issue. It’s fascinating to discover from trigger points that the sources of pain can often be found elsewhere in the body.

I agree, Buhr’s book is interesting; I recently discovered it.

All the best, Rod

[Anonymous]

Thank you Rod. Nice to know I have a brother there with similar problems. I hope your aches and pains are better now and your back (!!!) into the routine?
Me, I think my problems were of my own making….still trying to exercise and overdo it as I once used to…….I must keep in mind Bruce’s advice on the 70% rule. Especially in stretch exercises.
All the best

[Author]

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