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Greetings,
I recently went for an acupuncture treatment and when asked to stand up straight so they could see my posture, I assumed the posture as described in Opening the energy gates of your body.
The acupuncturist told me that way of standing is a “weak foundation” ; they then nudged me in the chest to show me their point. I of course lost my balance. They then asked me to straighten and pull my shoulders back. Next, they nudged me again and this time I did not lose my balance, then stated that having the shoulders sunk would put pressure on my shoulders, chest and diaphragm. Furthermore, said that having my hands facing behind me is “un-natural” and that I was closing down my meridians as a result.
So, this leaves me second guessing myself after standing this was for over 4 years and assuming it was correct.
Could it be that this Stand Strong is a great posture of Qigong only?
Could someone possibly lend some insights into why the acupuncturist felt this way about my Stand Strong posture?Thank you,
Kevin Hartwell
Hello, best wishes- I felt inspired to respond, so hopefully my comments might be of some value (and not a confusion
Two points that “might” apply- best would be to get someone that has Embodied water-method practice to a degree to eval-fdbk your stance- (I find how you feel their presence feels to you, as well as what they can do- ie if you are a MartialArtist- can they move solid-strong-yet soft/grounded- energetic etc… ie walkthetalk.. if your emphasis is on meditation, do they exude the “peace-presence” that you seek, or third ex if you are seeking Healthy naturalness… etc… but in context..
[ ie the examples Bruce gives of “soft” or sung or loose.. not meaning floppy or collapsed… BUT when you begin you do the best you are able, and then as it develops you can do more ( in other words, twisting and wrapping ~silk reeling is nonsense to someone, at a feeling-doing level of understaning, beyond words only- when they are still a solid-lump of flesh, when you can feel and awaken the layers of flesh so that you feel and have freed up the deeper aspects of your flesh, then possibilities expand of how they “start” to move….. ]
what seems to be indicated by the words may be interpreted differently. -most of all are you still “standing” the same as you did 4yrs ago when you began? (ie how you understood and were able to, per your int”l bindings/contractions/lack of connection-feeling
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Above is sort of rushed (typed out quick as showing-demo is they way my mind would try to convey, vs wording).. but it seems (first point I was thinking of ) to depend upon the “way you are getting into the position” as well as the framework they are perceiving from, but also your mind-energy state in it (ie are you balanced as a sphere in the 8 dirs.. ala the TaiChiChuan Fwd-back/LR/UpDown (in&out)… as some “stand” and disconnect outside, but sort of mentally-falling inside “float-like” .. this can make a Push-test not work. while ‘standing like a post’ fdbk may not…
but they may just have the “belief” that shoulder back and down- chest out IS strong (I”ve encountered Many “alt” health, let alone fitnes or MD types that have such base foundation knowings.. another is the “certainty that the tailbone needs to duck-tail up and back even though that “pours” the intenstines fwd.. that is based upon the Usual tension people carry in the lower back area… not just muscular but actually fascial-tissue shortening… like having tape pulling that skin area closed… just change position… that would be contorted….
and that relates to what “could be” (I keep trying to tentative, as I don’t want to assume or imply that is based upon that interp).. but if you have bindings in your “upper back” (as above ex is “lower” back area)…. often between and above-between the shoulder-blades is likewise taped-bound.If you have that kind of contraction behind the heart, as well as linked into shoulders-neck… and you then aren’t “opening the back” but the chest is crushed… but if you are loosened- you aren’t “rolling shs fwd collapsing” but rather think of the spine and scapulas going backward (and even up a tiny bit)… that requires release behind the lungs/hearts as well as inside the neck.
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anyway- if that last point made any sense- that isn’t something that can be done in a moment, or even a single practice session.. if you are tight& misshapened (ie squeezed out of shape over time) -which I was. You can just -AH lift shoulders.. as all the tissue is tight as both the “intentional doing ” isnt’ the point.. (as start “lifting” and it just goes back to as it was.. but rather re-forming,), and just like stretching into the splits.. you can’t just pull a persons leg up- PULLL (= rip) cramp or tear the leg-hip/groin hurts, but also ripping/tear bindings in the spine (back, but also the front-line of the torso.. etc.. I find this “Standing posture” links as well as changes: through the diaphram, then through the hips- down arms and legs all from the links and deadened spots in the torso…good luck (as I tried to reference in the above- getting someone who hasn’t embodied the practice/releases-internal changes is different than someone that “is it”… best if they are are you seek to be, and they “were” in the similar state to where/how you are Now… and they can fdbk in that context… also how you may feel while doing a developmental practice is different During vs After you’ve reached a MileStone (ie you may be bound up.. releasing a layer of that binding may take a while- via a practice (which has some nudges and adjustments along the way- like course corrections 70% rule and “on tradk”… vs “doing that same practice” once you’ve stabilized (same practice, but during may be more difficult to evaluate).
I hope that helps not just yourself- but any others that might read this.. and apply-feel test to apply it to yourself (and it isn’t as pretty or concise, so may be harder to work through all the words- but ‘you get what you pay for’
free comment.. I just hope it is relevant, cheers
The shoulders sink but you need to somewhat inflate the body to support it. Ie: Not collapsing.
Facing the hands back is a function of having the armpits open. Perhaps there are other reasons. If you just have your hands by your sides then it’s more natural not to face them back, but if you open your armpits to facilitate expansion into the arms then for me it feels better to have the hands facing back. This is all my opinion.
Hi Kevin,
Bruce Frantzis is a Taoist Lineage Master who certainly would not encourage us to assume a posture disruptive to the flow of qi. He has spent a great deal of time explaining every little detail of qigong posture. Therefore, it is better to have the subtleties of your qigong posture checked by a qualified Energy Gates instructor.
The more experience you gain with rooting, the more stable the posture will be.
If you check the Energy Gates book, you will find that the advice of your acupuncturist contradicts Bruce’s instruction and is likely creating the very obstacles to the flow of qi that we are to identify, such as strength and the unnecessary tightening of muscles through wrong posture.
It seems that your Dr was wanting to examine a normal standing posture, and not all acupuncturists do qigong, so if a short visit was able to make you we one guess 4 yrs of qigong posture, it should encourage you to have it checked by an Energy Arts instructor in person. For me this has been an incredibly valuable thing to have clarified.
Ive been following Master Bruce for a long time (almost 20 yrs). I’ve been a martial artist longer than an acupuncturist. My martial arts teachers would test our stances and our rooting, and it’s definitely got to be worked out with the help of a teacher. I help my patients to learn this posture and the ones that practice it feel and have a stronger stance.
The biggest part of the trick lies in the pelvic tilt. When the pelvis tilts properly, the knees automatically bend and open in a slight way, without any strain to the thighs, and you can feel the energy sink to the feet immediately. This opens the pathways from the low-back to the feet. When you apply downward relaxation (Sung) and then dissolving, you will feel the qi flow, the feet get full, legs get heavy, and then legs shake (thunder energy). This will occur to shake off the XieQi (bad qi) until ZhenQi (upright qi) is established along with ZhengQi and YuanQi. Look these terms up if you must to have a fuller understanding of Qi. There are five more types of “normal”, “healthy” Qi that we talk about in Chinese Medicine for a total of eight. All “bad” Qi is called XieQi.
Anyway… let the practice persist.
Steve
Hi again Kevin,
In the last section of my previous answer it should read “second guess”, not “we one” guess.
As another specific example of your Dr’s advice contradicting our qigong Master, I would also refer you to Chapter 2 of the book Dragon and Tiger Medical Qigong Vol 2 where Bruce explains the disadvantages of pulling the shoulders back.
Thank you everyone for your replies!
Since my last acupuncture treatment Ive managed to find alot of clarity from these messages, re-reading all the instruction I can find on Stand Strong as well as my own practice.
Ive also recently begun doing a second round on the Taoist Meditation Circle and it was funny that right around the time when this question came up for me, I began month 6 where Bruce goes into great detail about standing and sitting posture and as it relates to my question.From all of this and being really honest with myself and where Im at, I feel I now have a much greater idea of my current standing posture and I strongly feel like Im doing it correctly.
For me, after 4 years of standing this way to have an acupuncturist tell me it was an incorrect posture even for qigong it got me to re-examine the posture for myself. I suspect that although he studied qigong in school that his perspective on correct posture is more yogic (as Bruce compares the two in month 6 of the TMC).
So I think perhaps he has just never seen this posture (which for me is hard to believe) and didnt know any better. This was a big lesson in humility for me.
One thing I will say is my normal standing posture did suck which he helped bring attention and for this I am grateful.Kevin
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