Kundalini and Chi

12 replies [Last post]
Michael MacLeod
Last: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 26 Aug 2013

I know that Taoism works with Chi rather than Kundalini, but what is the relationship between them? Is it possible to convert one to the other?

I ask because I was born with my Kundalini channels (mostly) open and have access to huge amounts of energy, but I can't seem to do anything useful with it other than transcend spacetime. This is not a joke; if you have not discovered this, you should know that there are types of energy that can be used for this and that and other types that do nothing, or seem to do nothing. I also have "controls" in my head that I can seemingly adjust, but I don't know what they do, except in one or two cases.

Cameron Burnett
Last: 1 week 3 days ago
Joined: 7 Aug 2011
It's just not called

It's just not called Kundalini in Taoism. There is energy work with the central channel which I think is the Kundalini channel, but it's typically done at a later stage since most people can't handle the enormous amount of energy straight up.

As for what you should do with it I'm unsure. It's way beyond me. You could play around with expanding and condensing out from and into the central channel rather than just raising up.

Scott Lewis
Last: 2 days 10 hours ago
Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Though known in many places,

Though known in many places, kundalini is probably best known as a yoga topic and I've seen far more level of detail about it there than anywhere else.

Chi and prana are largely considered synonymous, and in most cases are basically interchangeable. However, if one looks at the "maps of meridians and nadis it is clear that they are NOT the same thing. Related, but not the same. As someone with background in both yoga and taoist spiritual practices I would say that chi and meridians are "closer to the physical" and prana and meridians are "further from the physical." Also, chakras and dan tiens are also NOT the same thing. Dan tiens are described as reservoirs, chakras are "transformers." If I am incorrect in that statement someone please let me know. I personally fail to understand the difference between an anahata chakra and a middle dan tien, and an ajna chakra and an upper dan tien, other than to say I've felt all of them, they are in "similar areas" and reservoirs are not transformers and vice versa.

Differentiating between chi and prana, and their associated subtle energy current tracks, I would phrase your original question as "what is the relationship between prana and kundalini?" That is a question whose details are probably best left to in depth books on yoga theory, but I'll say a little.

Prana is usually divided into "5 pranas", with 5 more additional sub-pranas. None are kundalini. Most pranayama pracrices deal with the etheric body or pranamayakosha, which is not kundalini.
Kundalini is sometimes described as an "evolutionary force", sometimes as a "the universe returning to itself" impetus.

Kundalini relates to chakras, and three major yogic nadis, ida pingala and sushumna. There are various ways to raise or awaken kundalini, none are trivial. Most chi practices, especially of the water tradition, are "gentle, kundalini is definitely fire/assertive.

There are probbaly plenty of good websites about kundalini is one knows where to look.

The Bihar school of yoga has many books that I personally think highly of and their "kundalini tantra" book has better explanations for what you are asking. Swami Sivananda [deceased, guru of some bihar school of yoga people] has good material online about it, divine life society HQ should take you to their website. Gopi Krishna has a well known book on the subject, though I've not read it.

Kundalini awakening can go wrong. Looking at some of the symptoms of when it goes right is pretty "interesting." I would relate it going wrong to chi kungs "fire goes to devil" though probably more intense or worse. It tends to go wrong when people "do it before they are ready and/or without assistance or oversight.

Prana is not kundalini, kundalini is not prana, they are not directly exchangeable. One can use pranic practices to awaken kundalini, and most maintain good pranic flows less kundalini become a severe undesirable burden instead of a powerful spiritual addition or whatnot.

One can awaken chakras without kundalini activation.

Cody Worthington
Last: 10 hours 41 min ago
Joined: 31 Jan 2014
Liked this, how chi is closer

Liked this, how chi is closer to the physical and prana is further from the physical; makes a lot of sense.
Makes sense why yogic tradition has masculine on the right and feminine on the left, while taoist has yang on the left and yin on the right (but, is that what Bruce teaches? don't know); a kind of coriolis effect showing when one is going towards the physical or away from it.
...and, though that sounds fancy, I think what Bruce may be on about with the left and right channels is that they aren't hard-and-fast yang and yin designated.
...and, and; lo! and behold, from the good-book of Taoist Sexual Meditation, "The 'One' (central channel) then creates the 'Two.' The 'One' and 'Two' in combination then create the 'Three.' In human energetics, the 'Two' and 'Three' are other names for the left and right energy channels of the body. Depending on circumstances, sometimes the right channel will be the 'Two' and the left will be the 'Three', and sometimes it will be the other way round."-viola (so help me, I will quote this whole book ;-)

Michael Phillips (not verified)
Hi , There is a lot of dogma

Hi ,
There is a lot of dogma and misinterpretation in regards to Kundalini.
Kundalini is in actual fact the sum total of all posibilities attainable through the conscious power of Chi/prana/life force. the more conscious we are to the power and force of Chi the more awake we are. So many talk about raising the Kundalini . This however has come from a specific school of tantric practice that goes straight to the source and manipulates the base of the spine and then moving progressively up towards higher and more subtle levels of energetic consciousness.
However, to be more accurate when talking about Kundalini is to rather talk about "awakening Kundalini" or becomming more conscious and aware of this infinite source of possibilities.
Energy Arts/ Daoist practices are essentially practices that awaken the Kundalini. That is , one becomes more conscious, more aware and open to the infinite posibilities of Kundalini awakening and the power of Chi.
In regards to the above question from Michael McLoed, I would like to coment on what hapens when one awakens the higher more subtle /trancendental planes of energetic(astral plane) fields.
A person can be born with an awakened awareness of subtle planes of energetic fields , however , might not be complete in development on the more materially dense planes of material manifestation. This can lead to ungroundedness and confusion, a lack of power to be effectual and puposefull. The way to correct this is through working with Chi and grounding oneself . The Taoist/energy arts are essential especially when it comes to connecting with and feeling the chi in the body ....
Hope this sheds some light
P.S. I would recomend the Qua/Tai Chee squat as an essential technique for grounding and intergrating the more subtle planes with the lower and more purposefull energetic layers of existance.

Regards
Michael Phillips

Michael MacLeod
Last: 1 week 1 day ago
Joined: 26 Aug 2013
My thanks to Mr. Lewis and

My thanks to Mr. Lewis and Mr. Phillips for their very useful and detailed responses. This is exactly what I was hoping for, and I thank you for taking my message seriously. Dealing with this is the primary struggle in my life and the pole around which all else rotates.

I have not gone into more detail, but I believe Mr. Phillips sees into the fundamental problem - having a huge engine that has no connection to my transmission. That is, I have this and other Yogic phenomena in my life, from past lives or God knows where, but I have not been able to integrate it into my day to day life at all. I have complicated the problem by being so frantic as to try almost anything that I thought would help, so I have activated various parts of myself out of the proper sequence and muddied the Waters, or perhaps mixed smoke into the Fire.

Antony Steir (not verified)
I would just like to add that

I would just like to add that the Kundalini power is governed by the central channel, not the ren/du meridian frequently worked on in various chi or neigongs.

It is true also that the kundalini is more concerned with nadis and prana which is a less physical than what would encounter in Taoist practices.

But it is important to be fully grounded before delving into kundalini aspects. If you skip the 'ground'work' you're playing with fire imo. But you can go to the kundalini straight off if you have spent time opening yourself up as per energy gates. Then its a safer bet but its not assured still. Because kundalni is involved with nadis which prana flows through and this is totally different to chi and meridians.

Majid Kevin Buell
Last: 2 days 23 hours ago
Joined: 1 Jun 2013
I don't normally use the

I don't normally use the forums so I happen to have noticed this topic. In 1970 I had a near death experience if you can call it that. I left my body etc. I cam back in hours later but only partially. The kundalini or thrusting channel was opened and it took many years for me to figure out the water component by trying to control the raging force up my spine. Later I read some Taoist Yoga and saw how things fitted in. Indian materials just got too complicated even though I studied with a Master of Meditation. If I was around anyone in Samadhi I would go into a bliss state that became quite painful as it raged through the nadis and my nervous system Acupuncture calmed me down. One day I felt a cooling downward flow and I saw that I had my tongue in the roof of my mouth. I had completed the Orbit circuit without knowing it. Since that time many books have come out that describe these forces. I am now a Sufi student of the Rifai or Fire Tarikat and have done a course in Tai Chi but am taking Paul's Foundations course as education is the best medicine in this stuff. My take is use nature and ground the fire in a foundational practice. Later doors open to the so called gifts some of which you may not really want but they sound exciting .

Catherine Chenoweth
taohermit@roadrunner.com's picture
Last: 37 weeks 1 day ago
Joined: 6 Oct 2010
Interesting thread! I don't

Interesting thread! I don't really have any personal experience here, but I did want to share a few lines from a text on Kundalini that, to the best of my knowledge, is from a pretty legitimate source, in case it helps. Comments welcome:

"The Sanskrit word for "energy" is actually "prana", which is much less subtle and powerful than Shakti, who is the ruler of her instrument prana...Kundalini Shakti is viewed as the combination of the fifth, subtlemost sheath and the One, from which all the sheaths emanate. This fundamental translation error has great implications and has led to much misunderstanding. It would be similar to mistranslating the terms 'gas' and 'liquid' in physics.

There are many terms for "prana", including Qi, Ki, life force (etc)...But these are not synonyms for Kundalini Shakti.

Seekers who consider Kundalini to be energy may engage in energy techniques to attempt to move this "energy" around or improve their sense of balance or clarity by clearing, opening, or balancing their chakras, Due to these methods, the person with a rising may be able to feel their energy moving. The distinction should be made that what they are feeling is fluctuations in the vayus and not Kundalini Shakti, the divine power within, which is too subtle to be felt."

Obviously another very intricate system with endless depth, much like Taoism. I've tried to learn a little more about it, even though I don't study it, because the topic of chakras/Kundalini often comes up due to their popularity in the New Age movement. Again, I don't know much about it, but at least I have a little idea of what it's not!

I think if anyone is having issues, it is of course best to seek out someone with considerable background and experience. Hope this helped some.

Jaybee (not verified)
1. Chi (Qi) is the most

1. Chi (Qi) is the most powerful energy you can feel and move around anywhere within and or beyond your body.

2. Kundalini is the fire energy of the Micro-cosmic Orbit and this can easily be activated and controlled by Chi practitioners.

3. Prana is the spirit or breathing or oxygen or air inside your body.

Hope this helps :D

David Moore
riptiz@yahoo.co.uk's picture
Last: 36 weeks 5 days ago
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
Hi, Kundalini is safe if one

Hi,
Kundalini is safe if one follows a experienced teacher. I follow the path of Kundalini Maha Yoga and received shaktipat (awakening of Kundalini) in 2005. It is a safe path if one follows correct teachings. Meditatation is a must to safely open the channels.
L&L
Dave

Ondrej Janicko (not verified)
I would like to go further in

I would like to go further in topic in this thread.

We know main 7 chakras which transfor the energy for human being and they are corespond with 7 energetic bodyes. Also Bruce Frantzis mentioned in his books 8 bodyes (physical + 7 energetic).

I would like to know how Taoist meditation a and breathing work in corespodent with this 7 chakras and energetic bodies. Down, Upper and Middle Dantian are energy reservoars, but have they conection with chakras ? How are three dantians connected with 7 chakras ?

In my chi practice I can feel that down dantian is locked in my body rather to chakras which are open to outside word and chakras flow of energy is contected with outside. But when we breathe from legs and feets to lower dantian than we open the chakras on our feets to conect with earth chi which fill the lower dantian.

Kundaliny is sexual energy. It purpose is connect energy word of universe with human being. The sexual practice related to kundaliny is minor use and side efect. The main purpose of kundaliny is spiritual development for ascending to Paradise.

Daniel Toh
Last: 8 hours 16 min ago
Joined: 20 Sep 2013
Hi Michael, Kundalini is a

Hi Michael,
Kundalini is a very profound and deep topic and there are many schools and individuals teaching it in public now-a-day; some teach their own version and it gets very hard to understand what is this practice. Kundalini is NOT an energy practice . It is purely a spiritual practice from the Hatha yoga tradition. The only purpose is God realisation and because it is from the Shiva tradition it is also attribute to Shati as representing God. To muddle up the water, the question of god in India, there are many, the main gods are Krishna, Shiva/Shati, Brahman and higher up is Brahm.The Buddhist(purely Indian) school say all these are not to be considered God. There are important tradition or sants who point to an absolute God beyond all these just mentioned. To make sense of these religion or philosophy takes a life time of searching and then to take up the practice will also takes a life time of practice. This is the situation for those with a strong spiritual bend. Luckily, in India there is a saying that : When the seeker is ready, the Master will appear to him. God do help those who are ready to be help. I think when we are thinking of Kundalini the adove are issue we have to contend with and not energy or physical power.

I note that we have very well considered respond to this thread and very good advise. However most of the respond also mention the difficulty to get a complete picture to this subject. I think the people in this new age practice Kundalini without knowing the purpose. Maybe I have a view that help to make sense out of it.

Lets consider some fundamentals. I will offer this view. In the old days(and also to-day), great sages and spiritual master in India and China in their enlightenment or in their higher state of consciousness can see that the human body is supported and function from a network or system of qi/prana. We think of the nerves as controlling the body function but the qi/prana (I will treat them as the same ) is controlling the nerves and body cells and everything that we know of. Our mind or consciousness control qi. It is the mind-consciouness that goes to heaven or gets englightened in my understanding.

So qi is a powerful subtle power that runs in circuit, line or pathway in the body, something like roads and streets in a city. On the pathway there are meridian/nadis, points like bus stop or control point. There are bigger point call energy gates. These path and power points are huge in numbers running into thousands. And then there is an important central channel that runs straights from the top of the head to the lower abdominal area. On this channel are power point like power station that serves the whole body. The Hindus and Taoist have exactly the same knowledge (for human body are all the same) but they use it in different way.
Although the pathway are the same, the Hindus map it differently and create a medical system call ayurvedic, whereas the Taoist have acupuncture,herds and massage. The Taoist practice qigong by using body movement to help the mind to connect or access the qi. The Hindus have pranayama whereby the breathe is used as the main focus and so the breath is use to help the mind to connect to prana.
The qi/prana work is access different in the central channel. The Hindu pick up seven 'power station' called chakras and recognise them as spiritual centre, a deity is recognise in each centre and each deity serve a human function. The highest God reside on the top of the head at the third eye while the lower deity with lower power reside at the bottom . Spirituality or consciousness thus progress from lower body function to higher body function. For a human to realise his spiritual self he(that is the consciousness) has to go in (for the spiritual centre is inside) and meet the god inside these chakras. Usually a person is not ready to meet god in the third eye and so kundalini is a system where he can start to access the bottom chakras and progress up step by step until he realise God at the third eye.
For the Taoist, they pick up three important centre and call it lower, middle and upper dantien. These centre is like power station with factory and a manager(deity in Kundalini). The Taoist gain access at the lower dantien station factory and thus have access to complete physical body control, whereas the Hindu gain access to the manager office to befriend the power there and prepare himself for going up the next level or chakras; a very important different purpose. Strangely, our true self (the mind) is off a higher status then these lower power.
Very roughly, the lower dantein work is qigong practice and going up to middle and upper dantein is neigong practice (nei means inner) because the middle dantien is associated with love, compassion for mankind or a recognition of the universal self, and the upper dantien is associated with Godhead and the ultimate reality not unlike the third eye in kundalini. Common-sense tells us that the higher state of being is going to be more complicated or difficult to understand.
Very often we find it hard to confirm to our own logic.So neigong need some getting- use- to to understand.

I have this observation, that even if two person access exactly same location, say the third eye(also called the upper dantein) the two person will have different result, depending on what one looks for. Some people hang around outside the door and feel good is enough, some go in asking 'Who I Am' as if the state they go to will reveal who he is ultimately, some go in looking for a power or God, some go in to gain access to heighten state of power in them self, therefore people get different experience as a result. These are the result of having different spiritual school or tradition.
Finally I think qigong cannot be mixed with kundalini or pranayama. These are subjects that needs to be handle carefully and mixing them makes things worst. Kundalini and pranayama are more powerful system and any mistake is also more painful. I think we may learn two system side-by side but we won.t have the time, it is better to concentrate on one system.

I would like to confess that I know next to nothing regarding kundalini and neigong just that I do have a strong interest in both subject for a very long time and so have collected some of these ideas which I hope makes sense.

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