Tai Chi vs MMA

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry if this topic was discussed before.
A few weeks ago this video went viral

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbhFdjiPe6w

My understanding is that Tai Chi was created and developed primarily as a martial art.

Why the Tai Chi practiotioner (*) was easily defeated by the MMA fighter?

(*)he claimed to be a skilled master.

[Anonymous]

Hello there- best wishes..

Just a thought, in regards ‘if this topic was discussed before’ you might be aware of how there was another video just like this a couple years ago (and couple years before that, and …) which had nearly the same characters, the same setup, even the same kind “finish”… perhaps coincidence, perhaps showing a design

There is a difference between what is “inside” the movements (which I’ve written, on this forum, a number of posts regarding; one could find if interested)
– if any movements (whether western, or ‘eastern’, boxing, or TaiChi long boxing, or other ShaoLin) are done, but just using the weight of the bones- either with momentum (like a thrown ball-on-a-chain) or like a battering-ram (like poking with the end of a staff, or a spear), then whether one uses a fist, or a forearm, or a shin, or a baseball-bat.. the movement is the same, then the accelerating and the ability to take impact depend..
This is true no matter the form, so even if the TaiChi form is used in this direct-off-the-street athletic way, the movements don’t change that.. the difference is boxing, or wrestling, grappling-pound: are based on that… conditioning is endurance, and quick-strength and constitutional-development, to be able to impact else..(as well as to take some impact).
This is intense training, but doesn’t change in quality from what someone can do- its normal movement, so to speak.
…..
External Gung-fu (vs kung fu, by this I mean one transforms some aspect of their phy), and further internal gung-fu– require developing something that isn’t there, so you can’t work it using/upgrading “that” until you have a bit

Just like many “MMA gyms” have classes that may be promoted as being mostly health (aerobics and strength devel), which a class like that might be thought of by participants as being combat-training, it isn’t…. even more so many TaiChi (or even other “martial arts”) may be health-athletic-fitness, and not actually training in combat at all.
-a confusion of what is being trained, and why (thus how) can mess-up “application”

…
add to this the current-modern concept of watch a video on YouTube and see a takedown and think trying that a few times is doing MMA (just like the old-time backyard wrastlin’, maybe with something for padding, or maybe just on the grass).. even more so people see a TaiChiChuan form movements, and do that form the same as if it was a yoga-pose, or a karate movement.. (just like trad-Karate would fall in the external GungFu cat, as they aren’t just moving their arms&legs in a certain way.. they have changed their body’s characteristic .

-if you hit with a tube made of plaster, or a rolled up newspaper or poster, it will be different than hitting with a stick of wood the same size, and both are different than a length of iron or ‘rebar’ the same size… or even smaller… take a length of construction-site rebar and wrap it with cloth around&around until it is twice as thick as it was..
It won’t feel real hard if you touch it, but you can tell it is dense.. and swing it a bit.. (you need to do something to change yourself like that.. and then clearly you’d have to learn how to move thence).

Internal GungFu is a a different sort of change (not physical, but something that can move along-over it).

— much of TaiChi (and other “trad-martial arts” that was known as Martial) is not taught today as it was… much is health (which is fine if you know that), but more so, much of the details what-to-do, why, that actually gives the health (and the power) is not taught (known?)
— if a school doesn’t train to fight, no surprise, but if they do- do they train as the first, second or third type? (how you move, if you think Ah, ok, technique A, and then I’ll technique B.. that can work in MMA,
but not the way that is optimized for TaiChi… nor the mind-state that it was done back 100yrs ago… –when they trained 5-6 hrs a day..

**
those that go in the cage for MMA trained like a full-time job, and they do the athletic training, and tactical drilling optimized for that “sport” (those that did TaiChi Chuan, or Bagua, Hsing-I, or Baji- likewise would train like a full-time job, day after day.. and they did “Different” sort of body-transformation-training, and tactical drilling optimized to their different method, not if A do B, but being Awake, and acting from HeartMind-Hsin… which isn’t how we walk and talk, but is the same skill used by deep-meditation work

Anyway, the above is how I have come to understand (I wasn’t around 100yrs ago nor have I trained in that sort of intensity, but I have made it an obsessive-focus to comprehend what the difference of those 3 named systems (of body-mind form-state, as well as the unique abilities each allows).. the issue being much stumbling in the dark is needed (more for the third than the second)- as these days on YouTube, and blogs, everyone (even serious TaiChi chuan teachers) may teach that chi and Fa Jin is just a misunderstanding, and thus they teach punch-kick that looks different, but is the same sort of mechanism.. vs training how to add that “something”

(if more some to believe there is no such thing, clearly no reason to look for it, as it isn’t real.. then no wonder it is hard to find.. as it is a bit tricky to figure out what it is, when you have that real-info and method.. and then there is a the “Struggle” to actually do it.. lifting a heavy weight is hard work, but isn’t different in quality than lifting a lighter weight.. anyone can comprehend what is going on. -not to diminish power lifting at all, just that it is extreme, but an extreme version of a common activity..

to grab hold of this slight edge of experience and then develop and work “that”.. it eventually becomes a concrete-clear thing (which at first it isn’t), then even then it is slight.. but then develop and work that, just like working any other muscle, but this isn’t a “Muscle” .. but it can do work.. just at first is is hardly a breath, but can become like that tube of paper-poster, then a plaster tube, then a wooden-stick.. and then a “breath” (chi) densified into a presence-density (like that rebar wrapped in cloth- but that is a metaphor, not a physical thing.. until you soak that presence-density into, or move it through like a travelling thud)

So many words- probably too many, as this issue will come up again, soon.. and the question why? (better the question, why the video? definition: clickbait, and to cause talk about it? works eh?)…

__________________________
but rather than compare traditional TaiChi (which isn’t just “modern taichi movement” done alot.. but specific stuff “inside” that isn’t normal-movement.. it could be, but it isn’t taught in PE /phy-ed ie school-gym class) to “MMA” (it was KravMaga for a while, than it was “WingChun” before that is was Silat or Kali, or even Muay-Thai kick whatever the current-pop-culture topic is)… the issue is what you train, you get good at.. (and what you practice, you become.. “exactly” what and how you practice, you become.. thus the MMA, and other Contact-Sports, and Powerlifting, based on practicing adrenaline-spike “Gooo!!” and they, outside of the gym, lose their temper and hit someone.. oops, yet they practice that….. on the flip-side, if you don’t practice fight-with intense-closing, one doesn’t have that skill).

but a better comparison, trad-Internal Martial Arts is more like Hedge-Fund investing, high-level investment negotiation (as well as the capital-resources, and credit-relationships, needed to act in that “game”.. if you don’t have the chips, that entry-Ante, the size of funds, you can’t play.. if you don’t have the chi developed into jin, then into a manifested int’l-power, then you can’t get in “that” game).
Above not being something you can just walk into, even with some coaching and “study”.. you need to develop those skills (and connections) to be able to play as the type of skills and the arena- the type of social-interaction is different than what we are raised in… likewise the internal-martial arts (traditionally, not modern, as we have lost much of this, even as we try and recreate and/or recover) were also a different way of interacting, so different skills (not harder skills, just unusual
— speaking English is said to be a different language to learn, unless you grew up learning it.. likewise Chinese, or Russian, is quite difficult to learn.. how because they are difficult? more they are different… again, if one grew up speaking those languages, or if you grew-up speaking a “similar” language..

likewise if you grewup feeling and utilizing the fa-jin and Na-jin to Hua (change and transform) and if you grewup paying attention to the different levels of “mind” and how they flow into each other, and can alter and/or empower actions (which in term affect them).. then you would have familiarity with an arena of what is, and has been going on, in-you.. but we aren’t aware of (so there is a learning curve)…

-this, in my opinion, is part of what is used in TaiChi Chuan.. how to develop that into quick, powerful, appropriate action? (and who spends the time training type, which contrasts with their “teaching” that to others.. let alone conflicts with living a life-career, etc.. and why would one? to be able to respond to a challenge -today- isn’t the same risk as a “challenge” in the old-times… so spend huge-effort, all the time for years for a rare event?

perhaps just to be able to pass along this skill (if all those currently living don’t know it, by not efforting to discover, then the next generations will only have Legends.. as the technology will have been forgotten.. another YouTube/blog concept is, if there is something to it, we could just make-it-up, and invent something.. its not real…. if it was ‘real’ it would be like saying we could “make up” a method of chemistry, or micro-chip design for computers.. from scratch again.. -those sciences are easier to write-down and have in (text)books as references… understandings, like how to craft an art-master-piece..

anyway- I didn’t actually view the YouTube link, but I’m familiar with buzz about, and having been in this subject for .. awhile, I’ve seen this “discussion” (which isn’t a discussion, just opinions, not inquiry to learn) from before internet, so what goes-around….
plus most seeing this will think I wrote way too much, but I hope if one really wanted to know this they might struggle through it, and to any who might disagree in part (or whole) or augment in someway, please do..

submitted for your consideration.. luck

[Anonymous]

Thank you for your thorough explanation.

If I understood correctly, today Tai Chi is practiced mostly for health purposes.

And those who used it for combat (like the “master” in the video) trained
in ‘muscle-based’ Tai Chi rather than ‘energy-based’ Tai Chi.

[Anonymous]

thank you for your response, and your consideration of my posting..

in terms of “today more/mostly”.. that might be hard to say; more it is like people who comment on the news today. (now the news comments upon things that happen everywhere, and many things may be mentioned that weren’t know in the past- as a result of the broadcast nature, vs the time of newspapers, etc.)….

in other words, what is mentioned by a talkshow host, vs what isn’t? what is covered on a news-hour/in the newspaper, vs what isn’t mentioned? -or what is part of the pop-culture, online, vs what isn’t? .. -how many teachers-schools are quite serious, that aren’t noticed.. there could be thousands and thousands… throughout the world. (while only hundreds might be ‘out-there’ ~known. -in the “old-world” a school might be largely known in a town, or even a region (if they are top-level)
….
most of all, all those that are “learning” in a MMA school are not all the “wringers” (the ringer that reps a school- as those that accepted challenges in the trad-schools.. ), would a hedge-fund investor (as that example in my prior example) walk into a savings&loan bank or a FinancialPlanner and “challenge” them to an earning challenge? (Or would the investor who developed their skills and knowledge over yrs be busy either earning… or just keeping their knowledge of what they can do….

_________
Many people also think, they are interested in an art so they wonder where in their town- in their neighborhood- would be a school… but just as there are some science-subjects that are only known-to be taught-presented in certain places in the world, one might need to not only travel across town.. or even across a country, or further.. to encounter someone.. (genetic-engineering isn’t taught in the center of each town, let alone around the corner, but most see a system like TaiChi, or even MMA as being something that should be avail closer.. but if it is actual training, just a few hours, or even a brief 1on1 consultation, can enlighten one’s entire understanding and context, which one wouldn’t just figure out.

-as a reference, there is an MAA gym not too far from where I live, and a handful of others within town, also a number of TaiChi teachers hold classes in continuing education and other classrooms (also a couple in nearby parks)… but even in the MMA, are they top-level of really know really how to train to compete? (not all are equal, see the video link below..
consider then would it be worth moving-relocating if one would really want to learn MMA, then would an Ext’l GungFu, or even Int’l more so… -and perhaps a teacher (whether to learn from, or to see as a demonstrator, like the issue of finding a Mentor to learn a master-skill from- as I wrote about in another post on this forum in the past). may take a while to find.. depending upon what one is looking for.(the selection, as well as getting introduction-connection, is an education itself, or whether just a first-impression…
………………………..
-as a related example, it is known-believed that lifting weights builds muscle-mass, and yet those that do it and get “real-results’ do it in a specific way; yet most figure how hard can it be, I’ll sort of figure it out.. and yet do all those that go to a gym, or at home, “pump iron” get the same sort of gains in size and in fitness?

-perhaps it isn’t luck, or ‘genes’, but a matter of really knowing the science… and that is only Sports-science in terms of anabolic-response… -to change one’s form, and/or develop ‘new capacities’ of mind-chi… how much more so might the specifics matter (much of what Bruce has presented, for free, in their YouTube videos- or in articles on this site, is some of what goes-on “inside the box” vs an empty bottle, what does it have inside-it.. to have a fancy Computer case isn’t the key, what kind of chips-circuits.. let alone what software.. upgrade the hardware and programming and its function changes.. even if the outside looks the same.
……………………………….
One aspect about the old-world martial-way, was a new teacher that made a rep for their instruction-school as a combat-school would be challenged (as in one would be shut-down privately), while those that just offered to teach the art would less so.. but the flip-side, the “consumers” could trust that a school promoting themselves would be more likely to “have the stuff” .. now the biggest promotion could just be promoted fluff… (if you aren’t familiar with the Video-camera ambushes, which may be out of context, or even orchestrated..
still consider how many MMA vs MMA, of WingChun vs Krav Maga videos of this same sort.. not as a one-off, but of school vs school challenges, are out there?

_________
-just as a contrast. Not that one is better than the other, as many would say/write in YouTube video comments, if one is doing a martial art, one should have the skill to fight.. and yet does that mean they should be willing or even interested in ‘fight’ not just compete… ? And yet- my point in this comment is, the world today is so global, there are so many people, there are different people…

I’m sure there are practitioners (combat trained TaiChi) that would be interested in engaging in this sort of challenge [and yet others with real-skill that won’t be interested, even if they have the ability], and whether in most locales- if this sort of “challenge” would be considered illegal in many places.. or the escalation that could arise.
……………
-thus the other issue I previously raised about how much of “reality TV” (and candid-camera “real” videos on YT) is really real.. or how much is set-up (staged? scripted? -yet that is what the best TV-movies are, planned and directed…) anyway- just a bunch of thoughts..

-M A Sano, what might your experience, background in these arts be? just an interest? having watched some videos, and/or practiced an art? (sat in on a class?
…………………
-if EArts would forgive a slight shift, a YT video as an information resource angle below, note the comment by Jacek about how ‘just a few yrs ago, as he learned’ only a few ‘competed’ you had to earn the right, and now people enter and ask on the first day- when will I compete? why that long? so just a change, in the culture… even in a physical MMA gym

(interviewed by S.B. of satria- Indonesia-silat as a third type of movement.. an art that also can be done in those different ways.. makes it work quite different, and much more difficult, and thus can be confusing which is which, and how it is working..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNMpjb-4ztE

===
gee an intended super-short comment went on a bit, I hope it might add (I didn’t want to have a partial msg communicated), luck in your seeking

[Anonymous]

The answer is simple, the MMA guy is vastly superior to the Tai Chi guy.

Any excuse making will not be good.

Here is another question : the movements people make doing this gentle Tai Chi you see in the park … how on Earth could this ever be used for combat.

If this could be used for combat you would have to be 10,000 time better and faster than anyone I have ever seen. It seems almost impossible.

I don’t see many people telling the truth about these things.

What the upshot of it is, I don’t know.

Tai Chi prepares the body energetically for meditation, MMA is not good for that.

Perhaps there is something fundamentally coward about the way Tai Chi is practiced, it is based on the lie that we are safe without being strong. This illusion comes from being protected by nuclear weapons that are out of site.

Reality is reality and if you fool yourself you hurt yourself.
But it is easy to waft your arms around isn’t it.
And it is also easy to micromanage Tai Chi giving 500 instructions for every micro – movement.
This is also dishonest.

Qigong empthasies feeling, feeling the forces. Tai Chi seems to be taught intellectually, which is wrong.

Many things are wrong and decayed in our society.

[Anonymous]

It is always enjoyable to read your pots to topics. I have also appreciated your replies to my past posts. I would like to weigh in on this topic.
In 1981 i was 13 years old and encountered my first martial arts instructor. He was a Vietnam veteran. The catch was he was Vietnamese and had served in the military to liberate his country from the north. We know how that worked out. Being young at the time he instructed us in easy tasks. He taught yoshinkan aikido. As I’ve mentioned before the yoshinkan school does not favor “ki” as a topic in training. I have never heard it mentioned except in the context of mechanics and reference to Shioda sensei and the founder. Yoshinkan is taught to the Tokyo riot police.
I also trained in karate but, I must say it was point fighting based and while I was a good competitor, that training almost got me killed when I was 18. More about that later.
My instructor always told us that in America we train as a hobby and in Vietnam it was a necessary task of survival. He also said that if we wanted to train real we should be police or soldiers. These comments were infrequent and he trained us within the traditional aikido format.
Ok…. one dark and stormy night… while standing at a pay phone with a friend of mine, we tangled with a drug seeker wanting to use the phone. He jumps out with an ax handle and I , being a good point karate guy, kick him in the jewels. I felt it when I made contact that it wasn’t hard enough and my pulling back limited then force delivery. It’s crazy what you can think about when time dilates. To make a long story short after failing to crack my head I took ax handle away using aikido
Motorplanning. When he got back to his car and tried to run me over three times it was aikido motorplanning and training that saved my skin.
That event changed my life. I became very paranoid and consciously decided that that would never happen again. I would never be on the receiving end of an assault again. My internal anxiety adrenaline response was turned on. I slept with a knives under my pillow and would wake up at the slightest noise.
I went back to my aikido instructor and told him that I wanted to train harder and more seriously. I told him I wanted to go to Japan and train in three years. There were a handful of young guys with a lot of testosterone and chips on our shoulders. We also started training in a Vietnamese iron palm system, a gift from our instructors lineage. Within a period of 3 years I had broken my wrist, jaw and injured my lower back. I return I had injured one of my senpais bad enough he missed 30 days of work.
You would think that with all this training I would feel more secure and less anxious. Far from it it seemed it was getting worse. I almost choked my wife out while We slept. I was sure everyone was a threat and was first to jump into situations that I viewed as a test of my courage.
Enter tai chi. The event that hurt my back was a pivotal point. When the pain would come up I would see pictures in my head with all the events in my life that were painfull. I encountered the energy arts material at that time but, did not follow up with training past reading the meditation books. Let me say that this occurred in my late 20’s.
It was pivotal because I found I couldn’t move well and I was still running with the “fight or flight” response.
Almost 18 years later I come back to the energy arts website and take the “Old Yang” program. I had found that my health was torn back. Working as a physical therapist and dealing with stress I was coming apart. I had been doing Tai Chi with a reputable teacher for almost 22 years and yet I could not control my stress. I knew I needed a different point of view. I emptied my cup and stated from day one. I decided that if tai chi was real as a art and it could promise health and how to control stress this was going to have to be it.
Within 6 months things started to change. I have posted on health changes in the past so I won’t digress. However, my stress response is not at all the same. I work in a psychiatric/prison setting and encounter some crazy(no pun intended) situations. It rolls off now, I don’t catch it, I resolve / desolve it when it comes on heavy. Blood pressure stays 105/60 it was 145/80 pre 2015.
Two weeks ago I had some dental work done. I didn’t remember that they put epinephrine in novicane. Within 3 hours I’m reliving my 20’s. I’m anxious and looking for ninja under my bed . Not that bad but still it was a very familiar experience. All the reasons I had trained were palpable I could feel them in my body. That fight or flight response was online. I realized that I had lived since that event when I was 18 with epinephrine in my system. I had leaned how to use that experience to mobilize my training. Of course the more I trained the worse it would get.
There is a price to pay if you want to play in the MMA. Cuncusions are bad in football and we know what happens. The chickens will come home to roost soon enough with mma. One of my colleagues snapped and killed his instructors family in 1998. He was a full contact competitor, it makes you wonder.
I am sure that 100 years ago the training was different. I have also leaned that as you said, things swing season to season…. Mui Thai, wing chun, jeet kune do. I am sure that with proper training Tai chi is very effective. It’s been said a long time ago….. “styles don’t compete only men/women.”
As to another post about tai chi not being truthfull. I don’t buy that at all. Define self defense and what real combat is on a daily. If you can not be ton up by your own response to what has happened ,is happening and can happen it is the foundation everything.
Hope this was not too convoluted or too long.

[Anonymous]

David- I for one appreciate all you shared in this post, and hope/expect others reading, now-and later- might gain from.. (the perspective/context I think is the real gain, being in a group -osmosis through association.. more so than the specific instructions and tasks. so to speak).
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As you mention- apples and oranges (so to speak) [how intently do people seek to train, and why? -often daily training, techniques and scenario drills, to defend/respond against a random… but how well would even that work in response to another that was/is also training in a systematic way.. (ie the assumption is that the “bad guy” is at most as prepared, or likely less, and not “more prepared”.. )
****
yet the trad-martial arts concept, assume the attacker(s) will be multiple, stronger, faster, larger, and more determined.. and likely armed.. (and you may be/will be more fatigued, and perhaps injured.. let alone older than they are…)

— bring in the idea that a “successful defense” may result in your arrest.. charges at best, at worst you’ll be able to spend some time trying “MMA” (or other combatative, or whatever) while you are inside a while.. -with the lifelong convict-stigma..
And that is not the main issue- mostly that any physical response ~getting into it with.. (or even just the mad-dog back-off, and/or stepping away avoidance).. you may think ends the issue.. yet they might be following you home…. (or asking around/research to find you later….)
-I know of one that received a ‘zap’, [brass knuckles to the side of the head (from behind) out of nowhere], he turns to look as he hit the ground, dazed, and sees a spraypaint can about to go in his eyes.. -lucky his action, made distance, and the other wasn’t determined to continue but broke-off.. the point being, this person had an issue with him from over 2 yrs prior.. -ancient history ? (in the gym, or in a “stadium” ring or cage.. tournament, or other chosen competition.. is different as if the motivation of either one is not to be involved, or to not “compete” but to beat, to win (by any means necessary?)….

–anyway- too many details, not to go down that, just I believe the biggest issue being the whole context.. (thus I buried that within this larger post).. -I hope it was of value, and doesn’t off-topic this thread

There are those that “plan ill’ who train attack-“technics’, and freeflowing continuous attacks, rather than just fight-spar… those that are either embedded within a prison-system, or another ‘club’ -they’re justification of such training is the criminal earning.. but even then, they would only train in that way, for other reasons, the sudden-intensity, unexpected-unseen.. overwhelming.. that makes such training for them less important- in terms of leverage- diminishing returns and all.
— but to train to be prepared to respond to such an attack (by those that are drilling as often, and much-more-likely more often, than one that goes to a school.. as well as self at “home”).. and take into account likelihood of their engaging as a group (and with tools)- the difference being their purpose, is it a spur of the moment ‘rah’ .. or are they “taking down” (in the same way that SWAT, or DOJ/BOP security.. (or other abduction-squads, LEO or ‘extra-legal’ ~cartel, black-bag extract etc)

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Your mention of Aikido relates, as I started studying it about that time myself (I begin in ’78- for 4 yrs.. and later researched wider seeing other perspective on that art beyond how I learned). ..
(funny note, I see that Aikido is not recognized by this browser-spellchecker.. the FB forum? -it doesn’t know that word, or spelled-wrong..

I also ran in to a number of people who had the idea that they’d (this a quote I’ve heard a few times) take lessons for a while- a year or so they seemed to think- so they could defend in any bar, or if someone “held them up”.. – I just mention as Aikido in particular was mentioned by them (this was a bit ago.. seasons and all)
This was whether or not the class actually built the foundation, and then applied it- “pressure-tested” -and mostly I’ve seen don’t do both, and some don’t do either- in terms of martial use

[on a different issue, I’ve seen the quote of “why doesn’t a “tai chi” or “bagua”/HsingI -whatever, enter UFC, etc.. and prove it.. and often the commenter is more WingChun than MMA, and yet the question doesn’t arise of “Why doesn’t WingChung stylists, nor the hand-arm engagement-blocking, show up UFC, MMA, boxing etc.) – (whether thus matches or conflicts with one’s background, thus one’s wanting to agree, and whether it is an issue… ie the last paragraph point- below).

And yet the issue of “past events” where the ‘story’ is it was actual no-holds barred (vs UFC where there are literally hold barred with reason- who wants to actually see a ‘match of such injuries?)- yet do we not believe as we can’t see? -does the video of a match of two specially-trained high-committed people, rep that “any/all/most” training in such a style could likewise?

-to compare a weekend-athlete to what an Olympic-competitor.. or even an Olympic-hopeful.. to compare a “career” marathon runner, or Tour de France (or even long-hill road bikers).. the greater time-energy changes what lvl one is playing at, and they are not the same.
(anyway I regret if above seems to belabor, or repeat, the pt)

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But the circular-logic can further complicate the issue: some might say “Tai Chi” (or any other art) is XYZ (hand-waving just feel-it), and that doesn’t seem martial, and yet something called Tai Chi that isn’t hand-waving just feel-it, isn’t Tai Chi, so QED (quod et demostrandium …therefore… (circularly self-proving?)
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In terms of the idea that … some then might accept that, “that (martial use- “fighting”) isn’t its purpose, but its good for meditation, or whatever” (then the definition of what is “meditation” -ahy blank out the mind? any relax? what is the meaning?) ….

— but, perhaps, that begins with a false-premise. I’d say that concept of Tai Chi (or that same concept of Yoga, or of sit-meditate,or likewise Aikido defined that way, as you might have seen).. I think wave-hands (like clouds) and just feel-it, may by done by a prodigy, they just “fill- in the blanks”..
but all others, there is more.. and I’d say that sort is not only not martial, but neither meditation, nor healing.. (just might be fun for some). [but I have really been reflecting and re-evaluating about how I would be ok with passing along what I’ve learned.. I’ve figured out some thing I sought for so long, even though it took so long- yet was always there…]
And so many things are little tweaks- once learned, ah how could I have not known this.. and yet wouldn’t just “figure out” ..

-not just the “how-to” (and today’s culture seems to be- show it in a snippet, video clip idea, predigested), but as you mention– incorrect ways of training (or even correct ways- still can damage).. and most of the ProBoxers and NFL, as you mention, are preselected as genetic-specimen that likely can withstand that sort of damage moreso… (else they wouldn’t have worked in to the top level of those sports)

– thus those who have “normal” (or even less then) constitutions, even more so -concussions and all that.. -more likely injury? (and if your idea was to use the art to ‘heal’/rehab -and how many have I heard say they had injury and used TaiChi chuan movement, and it didn’t do anything.. yet what they did was “movement”… and they were convinced (by our cultural “knowing”) that there wasn’t anything to learn.. no details (thus a bit of a bind- no point learning details, as there is no details to learn, and I don’t expect to be healed as how could it? -and thus it doesn’t., why do the old storied speak about TaiChi.. or chigung sets, etc. being used to heal illness.. not one with TB, or pneumonia, or even sclerosis of the liver (yellowing from drinking or smoking opium, or whatever too much)… how? well… (and yet not “taught everywhere” as it isn’t wanted, worth it, per appreciating it..)
—
-maybe there is more to it- and that fine-tuning-tweaks refinement-adjustments, whether in TaiChi chuan, ChiGung forms, or in MMA (if you don’t think boxing isn’t do- adjust, repeat-drill, they again fine-tooth-comb detail.. and the wrestling- either enter-shoot-load-lift-bind… then again and again.. with the coach, adjusting bit by bit.. let alone ground-rolling/locks, etc) unless you are a ‘go-fer’ it gym, assumption being they are coaching for skill-devleopment, and that is what one is seeking.. (but that MMA, or whatever the system one studies for UFC or otherwise, isn’t building up better and better alignments..?)
-compare high-speed cameras used in the Olympic training for, first runners, and then boxers (or golf swing- at the moment of impact).. the alignment of WeightLifters.. (they go up joint by joint, in each position of the lift– assuming Olympic and Heavy, I’m not talking curl or bench, etc. –just as a wrestling lift, from squat,)
-especially if you aren’t bigger and stronger than the others.. all (mechanical)-advantage one can get … (and when is the attacker(s) not big&stronger)….

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But the above are just words, that relate to the question being in terms of someone wanting to do themself, and then they go and have the experience (first dip the toe in, and then “dive in” -get-wet)..

many may ask the question (is TaiChi chuan martial? can “meditation” -type?- really change one? -does TaiChi/Yoga/? really heal and//or “soup-up”/develop the system?):
and yet they aren’t looking to get involved, just to ponder (which is fine) and even those “involved” may already be “involved”
(and thus not only biased, but “invested” -horse in the race, as the saying goes.. vs prepared to empty the cup, back the drawing board, or most of all..
– just look and actually see- with fresh eyes.. [ -not just once, but recurringly]

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another writer wrote the below that might relate-
http://cattanga.typepad.com/tabby_cat_gamespace/2017/05/why-traditional-martial-arts-mma-and-reality-defense-are-all-obsolete.html

Also (more than the surface quick read may be relevant and thus info)
http://cattanga.typepad.com/tabby_cat_gamespace/2017/05/dangerous.html
……

[Anonymous]

I agree that it is good to determine the “purpose” of something, and whether it is achieving it (many things may be off-base as presently expressing in out society)… but I think there might be a few mistaken-assumptions out there (perhaps not)…

Moving slow, how practical? (that’s can’t develop strength… or can it?) … as the saying goes, you get what you pay-for, and if you insist all tai-chi is, is “wafting your arms around” (which I’d agree it can be taught.. but is that tai chi?).. and thus anything different from feel-the-energy/waft your arms, is rejected…

but the idea of “Training methodology” vs what it develops, and how to use…. if they aren’t assumed to be the same- the question of how it works— otherwise, do you reject Boxing as a system? -they spend much time (in a good gym, that isn’t just fooling you and taking your money), having the ‘coach’ wear a mitt-pad.. and the ‘boxer’ punches the mitt-pad (his hand), while staying close and ducking….
“In a real-fight you don’t just sporadically punch the other’s hand” and not moving in&out.. if you stay close enough to touch- especially when they move their hand to the side, or up, or even back a bit.. brings you close to them, and their other hand (feet)…
(so if that is how they practice, that isn’t how it is used? thus boxing impractical?)

-obviously that is a training-method… if it isn’t understood “how” that training can develop the skill- well, that is the art, understanding the how (just watching a boxing session you won’t be able to replicate, unless you know how and why the ‘coach’ is working/triggering the reactions of the athlete)..

Or Wrestling/grappling .. they most-of-the–time start doing Pushups (face-down, press body up like a plank).. do that in a fight (‘challenge 1on1, or “real-fight”- does that mean full-out, or one “jumps” the other, unknowingly? and yet at a gym, you already are sort of agreeing..), but do a pushup, that invites a shoulder/armlock, or just on their back/choke, or just step on the back of their hand… Why do they do that sort of training? does that make those systems invalid? (maybe).

likewise, a freehand-squat (ie fold at hips, sink either to thighs parallel and backup, or down all the way to thighs to calves at heels, then backup.. either spine vertical the whole time (zhong ding), or with a 45 degree fwd lean, to spring the bow)..
if do on both feet, equals mobility stops.. if do on one foot (how many do ‘deep’ one-legged squats now? and if so, do they build up to it, so the knee, espec, and hip&ankle are stabilized, not pop or grind…
(Either way, does the YT crowd see that a Squat is something down during a match? -no? then an art based on using that in training… invalid?)
Would the above be done to develop, warmup, etc, or are those “combat movements” that are no longer valid- oldfashioned?

train doing it right…

(The question is, what does “doing it right” specifically mean? -What is your purpose, and then how to achieve that purpose.. the method.. )

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any sport, where Olympic Boxing, or Wrestling, or Judo, seems that the coaching fdbk and system of development has something to do with the result
(there is a big part from the athlete themself- their attributes, but also whether they fit with the training- just going through it…

But whenever the idea of the Fighter being more the point, than the art– (often that is mentioned, as if it is just the athelete, and the art doesn’t matter) ..
if that fighter/athlete was “untrained”? -if they just watched/learned the sports rules, and how they looked moving, and made it up….

[Author]

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