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April 8, 2013 at 6:52 am #128774
AnonymousGuestIn the past, I had written about finding elements of qigong in shotokan karate katas. I am hoping to be more specific here, as I have taken great interest in The Five Animal Frolics of Hua Tuo, along with the five element theory that goes along with it. I was wondering if anyone could draw some parallels between each of the five animals/elements, and various shotokan katas. For example, we might say that practicing jion develops the same attributes as practicing the tiger frolic/wood element, because both are aggressive and straightforward. Also, if anyone knows of any sites that can provide some in-depth exploration of this topic, please let me know.
April 14, 2013 at 8:05 pm #133332
AnonymousGuesthi danny
one of the problems with trying to see the relationships between the 5 elements and the various movements of shotokan katas is that shotokan has standardized basics, which are not really based on the 5 element method. they seem to be focused on the qualities of speed and strength.
originally in okinawa, these different forms were most likely practiced in a variety of ways, with most practitioners only knowing a few kata. looking back to those older forms, which would have been referred to as china hand, showing their chinese origin, you probably would have seen more of the parallels you are looking for.
but later when the “peaceful” forms, heian katas, were introduced into the okinawan schools, and after that when karate started being trained in japan, it got more systematized, as people learned more and more forms, using the same fundamental movements for all of them.
that said, if you start looking at the movements of the various forms, you will see movements that are similar to the hsing-i 5 elements fists and the 12 animals. When i was exploring this connection, I found that the martial orientation of the movements, that still had the elemental energetics, worked much better than relating the moves to qi gong movements, which are great to strengthen the chi and organs, but don’t have any real martial function.
of the forms, it seems that the more advanced forms, such as kanku, gankaku, and unsu, all had more fire type of movements, and forms such as jion or hangetsu are more wood and earth oriented. but virtually all the forms have some form of metal (knife edge hands) and wood type of motions. since the movements have been stretched out and made very linear, it’s kinda hard to see the water type of motions, but naifunshin kata has some of those movements.
it’s probable that most of the forms have movements that are related to each of the elements, you might think about the variety within the movements, rather than the variety between forms. many forms are obviously influenced by each other, and really, it’s a small island in the first place, so each kata probably has a lot of the same stuff within it.
I would also practice katas alongside qigong sets to help me “feel” the qualities within the form. I might do bassai dai with an emphasis on structure and focus, then do it very smoothly, then work on making it very full with vigorous movement, then do it really fast and with lots of kime. finally, do one that feels very integrated and balanced.
Ultimately, i realized that bagua (and taiji) has a lot to offer that your simply not gonna find in shotokan, so i focused my training there. but I feel that I learned a lot about how martial arts work by studying this stuff, and I hope it helps you as well, danny.
be well
April 16, 2013 at 5:49 am #133333
AnonymousGuestThanks so much Richard for your well-researched opinion. I now feel more inclined to branch out into tai-ji, xing-yi, and ba-gua.
April 16, 2013 at 9:32 am #133334
AnonymousGuestHello Danny, I’d be interested in seeing/reading what you found about this. Getting a response from Richard is a boon to you (being he was a Karate instructor for a while, in addition to working EArts system- and seems he’d be one to well understand where you might be coming from.
There is a book I recall reading, I think it was Barefoot Zen, by Nathan J Johnson (hoping I have the correct title in my memory- read so many over time)- if that is the correct book, he goes through some ideas about HsingI (coming from Vedic-east India Warrior Tradition) and then in to the Japanese area.. (it seemed to be confused as to whether the author was implying it came from that tradition, or that the tradition was still found within it- as it seemd he implied both).
He goes into the forms showing that the side-to-side step/blocking is actually a chin-na (another grabbing both your wrists- and thus rolling types… relation to EagleClaw…) anyway, alot is linked back to a “push-hands” type of meditative training, as well as San-ti type training.. so that might be of interest (along with the distinction of what the “Five-elements” actually means, as that was my biggest eye-opener.. so many writings emphasize a particular “vectoring” etc.. ie how some write- Rising force, vs chopping-dropping… vs the energetic Quality.Good luck in your seeking- let us know if this goes in a different direction than you sought.
September 20, 2013 at 11:02 pm #133335
AnonymousGuestHello Danny,
I am afraid I will not be able to give you an in-depth view that you are looking for, but continuing the discussion you began. Do you study Shotokan? I am a practitioner of Tang Soo Do, a Korean martial art with a lot of influence from Shotokan as well as other arts. I have not yet learned Jion, it is a fifth dan form, while I am fourth dan. I can say I’ve been looking into a claim someone made that Sei Shan contains all of the Thirteen postures found in Tai Chi. Although I have not yet made the parallels myself I have been working to. I study Yang style Tai Chi and cannot claim to know much about it but practice the form diligently. Have you made similar discoveries? Or have you found answers to your query? I wish you the best of luck!
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