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Hello,
In the tai chi online instruction that I an doing with bruce I believe that it is lesson 12 or 13 bruce goes over the flow of chi in the body with respect to application of tai chi. I believe Mr. Frantzis stated that to have the energy flow downwards the outside of the arms and upwards on the inside of the arms for chi flow. My concern with this is that from a energy medicine practitioner and acupuncture stand point of view. For instance the yang meridians of the arms (outside) primarily run up the arms. Li-1 (Large intestine) starts at index finger and runs up to Li-20 by side of your nose. Si-1 (small intestine) starts at pinky finger and runs up to Si-19 by your ear, Th-1 (Triple warmer/heater) starts at ring finger and runs up to Th-23 by your corner of eye/ temple area.
The yin (inside) run down the arm for example the Ht-1 (heart) starts out close to your arm pit and runs down to Ht-9 at the pinky finger. Lu-1 (lung) starts out by upper out chest and ends on Lu-11 at the thumb. The HC/Pc-1 (pericardium/sex/circulation) starts out at by nipple and runs to Hc/Pc-9 of your middle finger.
In general the only time I would have a client’s meridian flow run back wards if thier was a specific blockage that needed to be back flushed, kind of like using a plunger to unclog a toilet, you reverse the flow temporarily. But NOT long term that would continue to weaken the meridian and the organ(s) associated with it This would make them homo-lateral. (energy running backwards/scrambled.
So why did you instruct us to push the energy out/ down the yang (outside) of our arms and up the yin (inside) of our arms when that is the opposite directions that the meridians flow? All of my medical experience dictates otherwise. Please Mr. Fratzis I know that you are an expert in your field(s). Help me to understand, was this just a mix up reversal when you were describing it during filming or am I missing something.
Thank you for taking the time to read this and answer.
warm regards
Hi, Clayton,
I believe that Bruce is speaking of the central and right and left channels which are inside the body, not the meridians, which are on the surface of the skin (although some do branch internally, I believe).
In Appendix C of Bruce’s book, “The Power of Internal Martial Arts,” pg. 317, Bruce states: “Three main energy channels, or paths of flow – the lefts, right, and central channels (see Figures 1 and 2) – begin at conception and remain within a person throughout life….The left, right and central channels…according to Taoist chi gung theory, come into existence before the acupuncture meridians and create these meridians during fetal development….”
This appendix extends through pg. 321 and includes Figures 1 and 2, which are drawings of these three channels in the body.
Hope this is helpful.
Marcia
Hello Marcia, nice comment you made, I think the info re the side-channels (R&L) and the central-line… is important, but I just want to add, that -per my understanding- the “bend&stretch” in the wei-chi (the layer just under the skin) actually is the entire layer that the accu-lines run through… -these “Yin&Yang chi flows- referred to in these sections, is the entire layer which includes and underlies the accu-channels.. (whether this deeper aspect overrides the accu-lines model.. I’m not sure.. ) there are those who train in this system, who practice as well as teach Accupunture, and I haven’t heard this being an issue before..
Also the WeiChi lvl, which is different than the R&L and central channels…. (also R&L/Central in the core-Energy, vs how those channels are expressed in the Physical body.. as the two “poles” which go through- both simul- the bones as well as via the torso: hip to armpit- up neck to eyes to pt of crown.. is where is expresses a correspondence in the phy.. whereas the Side-channels tap to the 5th/6th E-bodies.. where Yang-Yin/Liang-Yi express and touch upon TaiChi… so a bit different).
.. just my unfamiliarity, I don’t know if the directional flow you are referencing in the Accu-channels, is actually felt as going from armpit out-along the inside of arm to palm… or is that just a statement? is the Accupuncture not just sensing whether the flow is stable and strong in that channel… but also directly feeling it is going one dir, vs the other way? (oft accupuncture can sense indirectly via pulse-reading, or even feeling the needles being “grabbed”… but if you ChiGungTuiNa feel into and sense the flow, which can also affect it thereby directly.. I wonder if that is referencing the same thing or something different.
Anyway- not sure if those that run the Accu-College in UK might see/respond to this? (or another accu-practitioner, who has practiced chigung for long enough to intentionally-direct the chiflows as referenced… as I know there are some.)
-best wishes..
I am sorry I can’t help you in that detail, but maybe my experience can give a little insight. If not… well it was worth a try.
In my experience, the whole body conducts Energy… basically it consists of condensed Energy.
All the different places just have different conductivities and also react differently to varying frequencies of energy.
The meridians are (in my perception at least) areas of very high conductivity with specific functions for the system.
In the Qi Gong methods I learned before training here, we massaged the the body along the Yang surfaces outward, and along the Yin surfaces inward prior to Iron Body training. One of the objectives of the training was to clean out the fascia, releasing stuck tissue, increasing the “space” inside them for storing energy, and then store and circulate energy within them. Thus increasing overall energy capacity, energetic endurance, increasing strength (is this internal or external strength?) and transforming them into a layer of “armor”. This would also increase the spring power of the body.
During the massage the tissue reacts not only to the physical pressure shifts, but also the energy you move. Both in combination were the key to the training.
These energy flows were always distinct from the energy flow in the meridians. At least in my perception it was. But I must admit that the level of sheer physical perception of energy I feel has increased tremendously with Bruce’s material. All my prior feel of energetics in my body were more… kind of a “hunch”.
To make it short, I think there is much more to Qi Gong in the martial arts then just the meridians – on the contrary, they are only a small part.
My take on this is that most of the Qigong that we are working with is associated with what in standardized Traditional Chinese Medicine as the Extraordinary Vessels rather than the Organ Meridians and this flow would be correct for them. My guess is that we are also working with material that predates the standardization of TCM in any case.
The Extraordinary Vessels can be viewed as reservoirs for Qi. Most general health focused Qigong work at storing energy in these vessels that can later be released into the meridians, and in some cases this is what the acupuncture needling actually do.
I am making a generalization here about Qigong for health primarily being focused on the Extraordinary Vessels because I practice one form that is designed without question to move energy through the organ meridians, but I was only introduced to it after spending a good deal of time practicing standing meditation and other Qigong that built energy into the channels we are working with now.
All this is good information either as your best guess of as application. I appreciate the input. I would definitely like to hear from some more of you folks that may study TCM as or with your business and have a greater comparing and contrasting to the information that has already been provided by you fine people. This way I can get a little bit more of the science or detail of the meridians which I primarily work with and the extra vessels that I have heard mentioned in a previous post. One again thank you for all that have posted and I look forward to hearing more from you about the depth and width of these vessels used in these other practices.
Hi,
I’ve been playing around with Qi flow forever.
Some define Qi as energy or air or breath, etc.
How about “confusion?”
(Just joking.)My bottom line?
Both ways.
Like the “peng” analogy of pushing a log to the bottom of the lake;
Simultaneously you have down pressure and up pressure–the log also wants to buoy up.Or if your kids are having a birthday party; you buy “Chinese handcuffs” as party favors. You put opposite fingers in the ends and the more you pull the tighter the gripping.
It’s because you have two braided strands of bamboo pulling in opposite directions–you have to relax the tension to extradite your fingers.More to the point:
Generally, unlike the Western anatomical posture with hands down at the sides, the model for Chinese medicine shows the hands raised above the head.
So “up” in Chinese medicine is up towards the head and fingers.
(Note also that numbering the acupoints is a Western invention,
The Chinese merely identified points with cute calligraphy.
So point numbers don’t reliably indicte the direction of Qi flow either.)Macioccia in “The Foundations of Chinese Medicine” notes that yin and yang channels “are BOTH actually flowing up towards the head.”
See page 1135.
Deadman in “A Manual of Acupuncture” generally agrees:
“The flow of Qi in each circuit begins in a yin channel on the chest and passes to t he INTERIORLY-EXTERIORLY related yang channel at the hand.”
Taiji teachers are less consistent.
Even Bruce will throw in a curve ball.
Yet he is fairly consistent.
Sometimes he will tell you to ignore the yin channels and focus only on the yang channels.
My teacher will not commit herself. She’s a Taoist.
Yin and Yang are one.
To name the Tao is not the Tao.
Still the Yi has to lead the Qi.
Where to focus?
Daoyin, which pre-dates all these systems,
Focuses on the internal–as does Bruce.
So focusing on the lower dantien is the anchor for all flows.
“Dao” ( guiding) has a yang anchor in the lower dantien while the blood “yin” is physically pulled to the extremities.
“yin” (leading) has a yin anchor in the lower dantien while Qi is lured to the extremities.
So it really depends on the focus of your application: martial opponent or imbalanced client.
Bruce’s talk on the diaphragm and breathing in the 2d Meditation of Week 3 is excellent– he has you focusing on the diaphragm while simultaneously being aware of your finger tips and toe tips and crown of the head.
Thus you can lead or guide the Qi in whatever direction you want, while focused on the whole body/mind anchored in the natural, unconscious movement of your diaphragm.
This is so cool.
I apologize for confusing the issues.
So maybe Qi is CONFUSION.BOB
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