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Hi All –
If those of you who have experience with other Tai Chi forms could help me out with your thoughts and experiences, I’d appreciate it.First, I have virtually no experience to speak of with Tai Chi, but about 30 years with various forms of standing QiGong, I-Chuan, and other internal energetic work, and there’s not any Tai Chi teacher nearby for me to work with. I really appreciate the medium-ish length form. Right now it fits better into my life. After living with and practicing the 36 Movement form taught here for the last several months, I find I still have this question.
The ending of this form feels very rushed to me – like I’m right in the middle of the current, and then a sudden stop. Almost like hitting a wall at speed. I have been working on using the final movement of Conclusion to take this energetic flow, wrap it all up and ground it into my tantien – which seems to be is the energetic purpose of the movement – and am reasonably successful at that, but the overall form still feels truncated to me. I realize this is a shortened form, so a little bumpiness throughout (which just might be there in any form) is to be expected, but the ending seems awfully abrupt for me.
My question is – is this how a (Yang) Tai Chi form usually feels at the end? Is it just one (or 3) big building of energy, and then stop!, or does the long form build and then smooth out/wind down a bit before ending or just flow more smoothly into the conclusion?
That is my primary question – how does ending a long form feel to you?
Am I just making an issue out of something that is just the way it is supposed to be?I would also really appreciate any thoughts on the following:
I’m not wanting to second guess a master’s’s understandings of Tai Chi, but I suppose I could learn the final moves of the Yang long form and tack them onto the end of Bruce’s 36 Move form. But since this form’s ending moves seems to be (from what I can tell just looking at long form sequences) a combination of the middle of the third section and how the second section ends, I don’t feel that I have the understanding or knowledge to freelance it right.
If I just treated the final cross hands of Bruce’s form, as the penultimate cross hands of the 3rd section of the Yang long form and then followed those moves to the ending (i.e. the Cross Hands right after the final High Pat on Horse, which is called out in some of the form descriptions but not in the 103 Yang family form (good grief!)) (so Cross Hands followed by – Cross Kick, Step Forward and punch down, Grasp Bird’s Tail, Single Whip, Snake Creeps Down, Step Forward Seven Stars, Step back Ride Tiger, Turn Body Sweep Over Lotus, Bend Bow Shoot Tiger, Step Forward Parry & Punch, Apparent Close Up, Cross Hands, Conclusion) just how foolish would that be (I know I know, try it and find out). Or maybe just slow it all down a bit by adding an Apparent Close up onto the end before the final cross hands?Any thoughts or comments?
Thanks
Peter
Hi Peter,
I’m a beginner, so take this as you will.
Maybe your body is getting used to the form and its energy, so that it is smoothing out as you practice it.
Also, maybe try approaching the last third like the cool down of a workout, or the last few moves at least.
I definitely know what you’re talking about though. I’d try to really release all that energy at the top of the final crosshands and the ji at the top and really sink or bring it down as the hands come down, and settle really carefully into the standing at the end end. Because all that energy generated really, reallly builds up and you can hit the wall if you come to an abrupt stop rather than let it peter out
.Cody
PS again, I’m a beginner, I just felt like helping. I’m not entirely sure I can do what I’m talking about. And this form can really overwhelm me!
Hello, just a thought about the rushed-feeling…
I wonder how much this might be from doing the last number of moves without having from your center-line out to both sides (left&right), as well as from left&right into the middle.. as trying to get that feeling (which I didn’t/don’t have myself-as I did this form prior trying to replicate what you wrote), I found if I did the moves of the last third with a fwd- sort of momentum sort of feeling, (like a narrow prowgliding through water, vs a sail going fwd as well a wide)
– then I think I got that sense.Especially with the turns (I’ve always had the perspective from NeiGung/Qigong and in particular BaguaZhang- so that affects it) I find that there is a spherical aspect to the movement, and if it is just fwd, turn, fwd.. then it could seem: (after “hit the TIger”) Turn L , shift-fwd and “strike the Dragon’s ears”), rotate R, shift-fwd… stop- that feeling of fwd from rolling onward tendency?
but a spherical winding- & reaching outward, as well as arcing/wrapping in.. and feeling placement/rooting of each foot as… perhaps you won’t have that?-I find the way the form goes together feels more whole than any other forms I’ve done or seen done.. but that’s me.
If you wanted to make-up/invent a form- as others have, and mention, either by modifying, inserting in the middle, or just (tack) on the end: its up to you.. but I think that might not be the way to go, unless you were just looking to have different choreography (vs a whole-flow and chi-devel process).
……
Any chance the first part might help or change how it feels? (or could it just be as you are doing it, your expectations are affecting? -as you mention thinking moves from a middle third of form, could mean you are comparing to what you think a form should/does feel like and seeing this as else? That might not sound right, and can’t be.. but I find the subtle-expectations filtering-perception can have insidious affect)
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-the int’l components: in partic the twistings, and weichi-soft tissue lenthenings along with the turnings, in my opinion, should be more distinct and felt than the reachings and postures of arms&legs.. and if so that changes it alot- even if the arms are done in a much smaller posture, less reach, and have that movement inside..I find from FairLady weaves Shuttles to the end, continually works and layers that… if these moves are like folding and layering taffy or kneading bread/pretzel dough…
[not if done so each move does a bit, then “lets-go” and then next move does something, and then “lets-go” .. as that weaving of a spider-web feeling breaks, and the layer/folding disipates.. etc.. ]– – – – –
-as writing the above end- went to send/post this (internet was disconnected… as resetting-router.. thinking of the end of form ran through mind.. and so below came out- could be too-much.. so just to give context(and feeling the wave rise-fall almost bounce I find quite intensely concrete.. espec at the finale. note the last moves are all down-below up project out a bit, and then reabsorb-like a YoYo, and then drop down, and drill/turn, and stretch to the sides and curl-packs/folding in.. –the whole last third is like this, and the HeelKick and then strike Dragon’s ear, is like a great big-high step and a soft-yet-crushing stomp, bounces fwd hug-squeeze, like Tree-hug-swallow. and the first part of Conclusion is an “apparent close-up-type” movement,, to reference comment you made.. if have the energies in each arm- reach across, connect/grab/reach and stretch across-wrap.. )
luck
Hi Peter.
I’d say when doing any form, follow the teacher without changing anything.
Do Bruce’s 36 just like he shows it.
If you want to tackle a long form, do it just like that teacher does it.Ultimately, a form should become one whole experience.
I’ve heard stories about Mozart in a flash seeing a whole piece instantaneously and then sitting down and writing down its parts–genius.My point is that any form (short, medium or long) can feel like it is chopped off at the end if you don’t see it as a whole.
I can do a long form (88/108/120) and rush to the end just to finish it and chop it off dead.Or on a better day nourish it, cultivate each part, let it develop into a mature whole and feel satisfied at the end.
This is after practicing several long forms since 1993.I can see Bruce’s 36 feeling chopped off because he taught it part by part for 18 months. To me it is a brand new form.
Bruce only demonstrated it as a whole only once at the end of the course. (Real pretty.)Personally I’m not going to learn it and adopt it as my primary practice–I’ve invested too much in my long form.
But the acid test is starting a form in wuji and returning to wuji at the conclusion. That is the mark that the form has achieved its purpose.
Robert, I like the point you made below here -nicely put:
<< Ultimately, a form should become one whole experience.
I’ve heard stories about Mozart in a flash seeing a whole piece instantaneously and then sitting down and writing down its parts–genius.My point is that any form (short, medium or long) can feel like it is chopped off at the end if you don’t see it as a whole.>>
–the essence of having all the parts of a whole -each- coming form a single-consistent seed/spark, rather than a start and then flowing, is an image-concept I’ve had come to mind often.. [rather than drawing a line, like it rises up from ground, or zooms-in to clarity all at once as a unit]
anyway- you put it better
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(-what is the mind that inspired, saw, and see it that way? ~the Einstein quote: Albert Einstein — “We can not solve our problems with the same level of thinking that created them” how to see with “another’s/a master’s”) view? Albert Einstein — ‘If I had an hour to solve a problem I’d spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions.’)
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interesting questions though, I encourage the inquiry(s) -luck in practicing and seeking/finding
Thank you all for your responses, as well as trying to replicate/understand my experience so as to help analyze it.
Your thoughts helped me to think through my difficulties.Right now I think that my problems arise from not being sufficiently stable in the last few moves, and especially not grounding and moving the energy strongly enough down when coming out of the last right heel kick into Strike Dragon’s Ears. In feeling it all, really, just slowly losing my ground during the last third, resulting in a more forward thrusting flow which when it hits the instability at the end causes thing to not resolve right (feels “strong”while it’s happening, but I should know by now that that feeling is one sign of things not being rightly balanced). I need to go back and consolidate the last third – I got a bit sloppy/less conscious when learning it I think and that combined with the increased energy developed is not a felicitous combination.
Peter
And you’re right – I was losing a sense of the whole, and having to force the return to wuji was a large part of my discomfort.
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