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Happy New Year!
As a beginner it is very difficult to sort out what is and isn’t important. I remember when I first started learning neigung with Bruce and how he would talk about the shoulder’s nest and how to open it up. In the Fire palm videos (specifically Module 14 Video Lesson 05), Bruce lays out the real point of the whole topic. The first 6 minutes is a bit tedious but around the 8th minute, Bruce gets to the main point. He shows exactly how the yang side of the shoulder’s nest is supposed to open up. Keep in mind that the center of the shoulder’s nest is what you need to fully open but there are steps to opening it up that go deeper and deeper.
By the time you get to the Fire Palm, you really need to be able to open the pathway into the shoulder’s nest; otherwise, the next and the next steps just won’t happen.
For example, in the Fire Palm you learn the yang side opening. Then in the Water Palm you learn the corresponding yin side pathway and start playing with switching back and forth between each. Then in the Mountain Palm you start using both directions at the same time and in the Lake Palm you use this understanding to open the central channel.
I wrote the last paragraph purposely in the abstract because this progression doesn’t just apply to the shoulder’s nest, it applies to a bunch of yin/yang flows throughout the body. I can isolate the shoulder’s nest in more detail and show how the movements within the Water Palm for example are designed to stretch the body and open the front side of the nest. It just gets too complicated to describe.
The shoulder’s nest is really important, but you won’t understand why until you get to Module 14 Video Lesson 05 8 1/2 minutes in. And, you probably won’t appreciate what Bruce is saying until you understand the progression I just wrote about.
I can’t say what will be the key for you, but I can say that this lesson was key for me. Through a simple understanding of the shoulder’s nest, how it is opened, and how it functions – I was able to understand much, much more about how Bagua works.
Very fascinating, once again a post worth more than gold. Thank you James, I am very grateful for all the posts you and Taokua have made ( they have truly helped me beyond words ).
-Adam
Hey James, if you’re a “beginner” I’m still in utero.
Geez, this opens a lot more questions.
How does the functioning of these 2 shoulder points relate to other functions?
Waist?
Kwa?
Fist?
Inside leg?
Outside leg?
Central channel?But first I’d like to throw in acupuncture points.
The shoulder nest contains 2 acupuncture points on the Lung meridian, L-1 and L-2–Yin meridian/Yin surface.
I will assume that L-1 is the best choice–L-1 (“The Center of the Palace Riches”/”Middle Palace”). At L-1, Zhong Fu, there is a quality of movement in perfect balance and harmony, Kaatz, “Characters of Wisdom; Taoist Tales of the Acupuncture Points.”The shoulder point Bruce digs into looks like SI-10,
Nao Shu (“A Vital Transfer of Energy to the Shoulder”/”Upper Arm Shu”).
It is a Yang point on the Small Intestine meridian on the Yang surface.
Kaatz says that here the muscle of the shoulder is able to provide balance and flexibility to accomplish our goals.
Deadman says it releases the entire trapezius muscle.So, indeed, even in acupuncture, these 2 areas are a vital switch between yin to yang.
I don’t have enough time at the moment to figure out how this switching relates to the above other functions.
Lesson 9 addresses the waist moving in the OPPOSITE direction the arms are moving.
Then if the inner leg is becoming weighted during stepping–which way is the kwa moving?
Does that mean the shoulder is moving the other way?
And, of course, the “box” of kwa/shoulder-nest should be maintained.And you noted how the fist (inside fist?) is formed when going down and absorbing energy–to the inside while the other hand is projecting yang energy out from the central channel.
See Lesson 19, Instructions for forming a bagua fist.How about a diagram?
Anyway, Happy New Year.
I’ve got to do a lot of studying this year.
Hey James, if you’re a “beginner” I’m still in utero.
Geez, this opens a lot more questions.
How does the functioning of these 2 shoulder points relate to other functions?
Waist?
Kwa?
Fist?
Inside leg?
Outside leg?
Central channel?But first I’d like to throw in acupuncture points.
The shoulder nest contains 2 acupuncture points on the Lung meridian, L-1 and L-2–Yin meridian/Yin surface.
I will assume that L-1 is the best choice–L-1 (“The Center of the Palace Riches”/”Middle Palace”). At L-1, Zhong Fu, there is a quality of movement in perfect balance and harmony, Kaatz, “Characters of Wisdom; Taoist Tales of the Acupuncture Points.”The shoulder point Bruce digs into looks like SI-10,
Nao Shu (“A Vital Transfer of Energy to the Shoulder”/”Upper Arm Shu”).
It is a Yang point on the Small Intestine meridian on the Yang surface.
Kaatz says that here the muscle of the shoulder is able to provide balance and flexibility to accomplish our goals.
Deadman says it releases the entire trapezius muscle.So, indeed, even in acupuncture, these 2 areas are a vital switch between yin and yang.
I don’t have enough time at the moment to figure out how this switching relates to the above other functions.
Lesson 9 addresses the waist moving in the OPPOSITE direction the arms are moving.
Then if the inner leg is becoming weighted during stepping–which way is the kwa moving?
Does that mean the shoulder is moving the other way?
And, of course, the “box” of kwa/shoulder-nest should be maintained.And you noted how the fist (inside fist?) is formed when going down and absorbing energy–to the inside while the other hand is projecting yang energy out from the central channel.
See Lesson 19, Instructions for forming a bagua fist.How about a diagram?
Anyway, Happy New Year.
I’ve got to do a lot of studying this year.
I’m back at it:
at Module 14,
Video Lesson 21 “Emitting Power While Walking”Remembering Lesson 05 on moving Qi through the Shoulder Girdle.
Question:
What is the Right Shoulder Nest doing while Bruce is emitting power out the Right palm?Bruce’s Right Palm has contacted Opponent’s right back of hand 3:26
Bruce’s right waist is turning inward-counter clockwise.4:40 Bruce is not braking or blocking Opponent’s arm
4:43 Bruce is not sucking Opponent in
4:54 Bruce is PROJECTING his energy (Yin energy or Yang energy?) out into Opponent.4:56 Bruce’s right waist is twisting in, counterclockwise
5:00 Bruce is PROJECTING Qi out his right arm/hand/palmSo what is the right shoulder girdle doing at 4:58?
Is the Right Shoulder Nest opening at that moment?
The arm should be moving OPPOSITE the waist.Looks like L-1 is opening while SI-10 is closing.
Does this release energy?
Looks like Yin meridian opens.
(Does that mean Yin energy is being projected?)
Yang meridian closes.
As that right arm rotates clockwise.Can anyone see this differently?
Can’t say that I’m not confused at this point.
The short answer is that the shoulder’s nest is a cavity and all of them seem to work exactly the same way. If you learn how one works, you know something about how they all work.
For example the way the yang and yin change over in the shoulder’s nest is exactly the same way that the flow between the lower tan tien and ming men work.
The kwa is another cavity and relates very directly to the shoulder’s nest. This relationship is part of the six combinations. This subject is started in the Core III neigung set, Marriage of Heaven and Earth.
The mechanism of how yin and yang switch in these cavities is the heart of the Water Palm Change. “Bagua’s specialty is the switch over point from yang to yin and yin to yang.” It’s the art of change.
In the Fire Palm you are getting the yang side together in a deeper way than previously which sets up the yin side and the next even deeper way to change.
I’ll try to look at this in more detail when I have time. We can drive ourselves crazy with questions. I know. I did this for years. If you stick to it, you’ll likely sort it out.
Instead of trying to answer your questions, I’ll post something that may help. Look for a post “How do internal arts generate power?”.
This is an archived forum (read only). Go to our active forum where you can post and discuss in real time.