Bagua posture naming

[Anonymous]

Hi,

with this post, I’m trying to figure out the names of the postures or sequences inside the bagua palm changes. Something like taichi’s white crane spreads wings, fair lady weave’s at shuttle… in other words those fancy chinese pictures to describe a move. I think it would simplify communication especially when you’re writing.

I’m curious if Bruce has ever used such descriptive phrases. I only know he used some traditional names for the static arm postures like “bear turns its back”.

I found Frank Allens enumeration of the eight palm changes with names. Besides the single and double palm change:
THE CROSSING HANDS PALM CHANGE
TURNING TO STRIKE WITH THE FIST PALM CHANGE
BLACK DRAGON TURNS TO STRIKE WITH ITS TAIL PALM CHANGE
DELICATELY PLACE THE FLOWERS IN THE VASE PALM CHANGE
WHITE SNAKE SPEAKS ITS MIND PALM CHANGE
GIANT ANACONDA COILS ON ITSELF TO CHANGE DIRECTION PALM CHANGE
are these the “official” names?

Please post if you know more phrases whether by Bruce, by other teachers of cheng style bagua or else.

Thanks

[Anonymous]

hi mark

as I understand it, the names are not the point, lots of different styles have different, poetic, descriptive names for a movement, but they are generally the same movement.

bruce has seemed to go to great lengths to avoid using these names, and instead tends to use the energetic names for the movements; heaven palm change, water palm change, wind change, etc.

shaolin and chinese gung fu in general use animal names, and a goal of that is to imagine and duplicate the energy of the animal. that’s great, but that also means humans, who have their own unique capacities, are copying animals.

the taoist way seems to be more to move towards being a human being and then a spiritual being, and in fact, that’s one of the main goals of the monastic style of bagua.

so, my take on it is; there are a lot of names for these general movements, some are animal names, some are energetic names, and some may have other functions I am not yet aware of. but it’s the proper execution of the movement that is the point.

in the big picture, bruce seems much more focused (thanks so much) on what the movement actually is, how to develop it, and how to use it, rather than focusing on the pleasing language of the art.

the tao that can be told is not the real tao.

the name that can be spoken is only approximate

hold fast to the center…

anyway, that’s my 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

Hi richard,

got your point, but how do you name specific moves or postures?. I stumbled upon this topic in a post about the wind palm change and its different variations, where James LaPlante tried to explain how he does the wind palm. The cutting palm strike that looks a lot like fair lady weave’s at shuttle, the hands wrap the lower tan tien… he used long descriptions referred to a video but still I’m not sure if we thought the same moves. Its easy if your right in front of someone showing the move but if you write about it, its easier to have a common naming convention. e.g. the “cotton palm”, “cutting palm” referring to the function.

[Anonymous]

hi mark

bruce seems to really avoid using those names, not sure why. I might guess he’s trying to keep us from spending all our time talking instead of practicing, by not giving us so much to talk about.

he has tended to mostly use the energy name for it, such as;
heaven palm (walk, 1,2,3,4 and back into walk)
single palm change
double palm/earth palm
wind palm
etc.

so that’s how I discuss it. heaven palm, move 3.

I also study the Liu bin bagua style, and had the chance to assist zhang jie in writing 2 books on the style. in that style, they got names.

single palm change has the following names, either for the entire movement, or for a sub movement.
single palm
holding single fish
yin yang hands
single goose leaves the flock
horizontal opening palm
flowers hidden under leaves
single direction change
protect the ribs palm
running horse
turning back palm
it’s older name was green dragon extends claws, and there are others, and of course you can use the chinese names.

to me, when discussing applications of the movements, it’s often more functional to look at what the energy is doing; are you extending, twisting, pulling, sinking, etc. so many variations in how a movement is done, based on the slight differences that each attack will have, and your focus.

for example, using the bruce single palm change movement, you can throw someone out or drop them to the ground with the same basic movements, but the energy of the body is different.

the “magic” of the internal martial arts comes from the flexiblity to have a single movement have many many potential energetic movements within it, making it more responsive, adaptable, and functional. that same “magic” makes it very hard to describe.

some bagua men have only focused on single palm change, and it is said that it’s possible to get all the possible energetic functions into just single palm, so in a sense, all the other palms are variations on that theme.

so perhaps we can add the name

everything under heaven palm

hope this helps, and best of training.

richard

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