- This topic is empty.
-
Posts
-
I just picked up a copy of the new edition of “The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi”. There is some additional material on Fa Jin that wasn’t in the original as well as a great new chapter on the Tao of Spiritual Martial Arts.
In one of my previous posts, “What you are doing versus how to do it”, I was trying to make a distinction between having an intellectual idea of what a thing is and the ability and understanding to actually do it. The post was intentionally abstract.
Here I thought I’d illustrate a concrete example of what I was trying to convey and at the same time open a discussion of fa jin. If you read through Bruce’s book, I’m sure you will have a very clear idea about what fa jin is, but can anyone really tell me how you create fa jin?
Short answer: No.
It would be different depending on what art you’re doing, right? Well at least in terms of the source. It’s not something I’ve played around with as I’m under the impression that if you’re not ready you can mess yourself up doing it. Is that right or is that only the case when you do it incorrectly?
This post has been out there for almost a month and not one person can explain how to generate fa jin. I realize there are only about 4 of us that actually post to the forum, but 20 or 30 people have probably read the post. Doesn’t this strike anyone as odd that not one person can describe how they generate internal power?
Hi, james.
The forums in this group seem to be getting fewer visits and posts. I read your original question and didn’t reply because I don’t have a great deal of experience in fa jin. Or I should say, I’m focusing on other things at present, not the martial application of fa jin. Creating internal power seems to me to be a broader issue and I think a lot of people have ideas about that. When I first started studying taiji, my teacher had us doing a lot of applications and we worked a lot with fa jin. We worked on the 4 chin, correct alignments, and the spring in the ligaments and tendons as we worked repetitive drills on the applications of individual postures in the form. When I started studying with Energy Arts instructors, there was less of an emphasis on training the applications, though demonstrations of those applications was part of every class.
So I think fa jin is probably something that needs more attention. Is it odd that no one has chimed in on this? Maybe, but I think it indicates that it’s not something most people are interested in.
The other thing could be that people find the question, coming from an experienced senior student, a little intimidating. I’m not sure if you know the answer and are using this as a teaching moment or if you’re sincerely asking if someone knows and want to begin a discussion about it.
What do you think the lack of responses means?
best,
Matthew
I think the definition is part of the reason. I wouldn’t even know if I was using fa jin unless someone who knew what it was could tell me that that’s what I was doing.
What point does power become explosive power? There would surely be a line going from no power, through flowing power, to explosive power. What are the key elements of power generation that constitute fa jin? I haven’t got the book yet but it’s on my list to get.
The way I generate power is to fill outwards from my center. In terms of a punch I would fill my shoulder, elbow, and wrist, and then flow it out expansively making sure my shoulder remains fixed on its correct pivot point and rotates freely. I am sure that once my body is properly connected energetically then I could just focus on expanding from my lower dantien like a bomb going off and everything else should just happen provided my intent is setting up the correct conditions.
It just means no one responded.
This is probably indicative of a lack of understanding that I share as well. I’m working on some new ways to generate power. I was hoping some of the senior instructors/practitioners would share their insights. Like most of the students on this forum, I’m on my own. It is helpful to hear other people’s understanding of Bruce’s material.
A few of Bruce’s students were really starting to get strong ten years ago. I’d really like to hear how they would describe how they generate power after practicing and learning for another decade. I know my practice is changing at an incredible rate right now. These guys must be doing things they could only imagine back then.
This is more like what I was hoping we could get at. I can actually talk about the flows I’m working with and explain in some detail how I generate them. That doesn’t mean you’ll be able to do exactly what I’m doing, but I have a very concrete idea about how I generate internal power.
Unfortunately, I’ve never been taught how to do fa jin. Yes, like most of you, I’ve been at a lot of seminars where we use individual neigung components to generate power and practice fa jin, but I don’t believe this is the real story.
I remember pushing with Gin Soon Chu when I was first learning Yang style Tai Chi. He used to push with every student every night. When he finished with me he would say the same thing in a broken English, mocking tone, “Young man’s power. Power no come out.” He never explained what I was doing wrong or what I was supposed to try to do. Of course I was using strength. That’s all I knew. No one ever told me what I was supposed to try to do. Not one person. They had it. Gin Soon was very powerful and very relaxed. He was trying to teach me by doing it to me over and over. But I didn’t even know that I should be trying to pay attention to what he was doing inside. The sum total of my instruction there could be summarized by a typical form correction: “Turn left toe…more, more, more…gooooood.”
So, I continue to try to find some clarity regarding fa jin. It has been two decades and I still haven’t met anyone who is really willing to teach this straight, to the point, and give me the whole nut. I’ve met quite a few people who can generate this type of power, but I’ve only met two people who I believe are capable of teaching it fully.
I did a work push hands work shop with William C.C. Chen about 20 years ago and he had this great way of demonstrating how to generate power during push hands. The more accurate term would be to transfer or transform the power back to the person pushing you. He used the image of a partially inflated balloon. When a push or strike hits a partially inflated balloon, it inflates and redirects the force out. I’m not explaining it that well, but he had us doing repetitive drills and learning to feel what that means. It’s an image and feeling that’s stayed with me though I haven’t been doing much push hands or sparring. When the alignments are right and you have that feeling of aliveness and awareness in your body, it happens without being processed by the intellect.
I’m a piano player and I’ve had to be careful. When I was doing a lot of push hands, and doing it poorly probably, I injured myself a few times and that’s a little scary. I’m sure if I was doing it right it wouldn’t be an issue, but getting to that point where it’s ingrained requires some “investment in loss,” to paraphrase Cheng Man Ching. Anyway, I know this is a weakness in my practice…
Yeah I think that’s a key point from my experience. Since you’re expanding from under the ground in tai chi you want to absorb down under the ground and let it go back like a spring unloading.
In wing chun we’ve been playing around with something similar where we’re taking the force in to our lower dantien and then expanding it back out from there. It’s difficult but not that hard to get happening to SOME extent.
Take heart guys,
I read, but usually don’t respond.
I’m busy assimulating the Bagua Mastery Program.
Bob
Unfortunately this post turned out to be a complete failure to get some of Bruce’s senior student’s engaged. From my perspective, fa jin has always been at the heart of my personal study of the internal martial arts. I won’t be satisfied until I understand how Bruce generates so much power and more importantly how to actually do it myself.
I’m not surprised that I didn’t get an answer to my question. I suspect that very, very, very few people have a clue and even fewer could put that into words. Fortunately there are people who have studied with Bruce that continue to get stronger over time.
I was surprised no one asked me how I generate power. Before anyone asks I’m only willing to make a couple comments as this is the foundation of a book that I would like to write. 1) Obviously, I try to use all of the components of the 16 part neigung as best I can and the degree to which I’m successful varies from day to day. 2) It depends on whether I’m doing Hsing I, Tai Chi, or Ba Gua. They all share neigung as a foundation but their fundamental “power matrices” are different. This is something that Bruce has said forever but I only recently understood. 3) I won’t post details on this until I understand why Bruce hasn’t. I think it is a simple safety issue. If that is the case, I don’t want to incur the bad karma for any harm that might result any more than he does. Anyway, don’t ask, don’t tell.
Hello there James, You are wondering ???. no response in the forum? as to power generation. Well one time I got it. Long story short….. severally years ago , A drunk rampaged in my house after myself and my 5 year old son. I backed us up time and time again during the confrontation in the house; finally my son on the bed and myself standing {door closed} Thed drunk was busting in broken whiskey bottle in hand, I lokked at my son and thought how sad if he spends the rest of his life cut and scarred from that whiskey bottle.I adopted an attitude of this drunk has to be put down,,,,, Sooo A quick little prayer to Kali and I flung open the door and let him have it. A check hand for the bottle and a knuckle hit in the bicep to paralyse the hand.next thing I know the drunk is flat on the floor unconscious{not my intention}My point do or die intention stirred up the internal power in me that time.{{{ there you go a response}}}.Thanx Al Ray.
Just read through all your posts on Fa-Jin.You’re in a quandrum it seems.Here’s some brain wrenching for ya. Fa-Jin is not a normal human function ineveryday life so the manifestation of such requires circumstances that allow energy to vacumn and then refill.teachers are allowed it seems for reasons mysterious and Karmacilly correct. Ones like myself probably should’nt Fa-Jin around town constantly so as not to upset the local energy flow. For example I trained a year ago or so in Kundakini Awakening which got my keyed into my Utopian expectations of all people .around the .aLfactory I visited the thought struck me not to transfer Kundalini to those around me [the factory workers] such transfer would have sent them off psychologically emotionally and physically completely antithesis to their positions in this factory life.All good you would think give them spiritual energy but No on and on and on I think this would have destroyed their factory niche.A wrong thing to do.That’s the point here,I want but is this a correct thing to do????.Fathom PAST PRESNT FUTURE. The three somtimes I don’t want to mess with.By my silly wants.The facts global society wants technology and not ancient biological wisdom.Is a book a worthwhile endeavor?All the effort and work might go all for not. But I like books.Good Luck Thanx Al Ray.
Alan, I’m sincerely sorry that you had to go through this. I walked into my house with my two young sons while a burglar was still in the house. I know from personal experience what goes through your mind.
Before everyone starts telling their horror stories, I think it is important to state that I don’t equate fa jin with violence. When Bruce did the photoshoot for the cover of The Power of the Internal Martial Arts, he threw me using fa jin for three hours without harming me. The amount of power he can generate is incredible.
Bruce has written about his teachers including Liu Hung Chieh. He said “…all had incredible power. They had the ability to discharge energy (fa jin) to the extent that they could effortlessly and painlessly uproot and send the strongest of students flying for many feet in any direction they chose. They also had the ability to touch you with no apparent force and project their energy inside the body to cause injury or pain, if necessary. Liu had the added ability to heal with the same light fa jin touch.”
I’m interested in how Bruce and his teachers generated this power. For me, it represents an incredible mastery of the body and mind. That’s what fascinates me. I’d love to hear how other students, particularly Bruce’s senior students, are training to develop this power and more importantly, how they generate the power these days.
This is an archived forum (read only). Go to our active forum where you can post and discuss in real time.