How develop “Internal-power” (vs just External interp)-espec with so many meaning-redefined. -Isolation vs Mixed-assisted devel

[Anonymous]

Just two cents (sense?) from a random poster- but below are some prior threads on this forum- if reviewed in context to questions that may arise at this time about how to begin, and what does “internal-training” mean? (time on the heavy-bag, bench-pressing and other MMA/wing-chun/Krav-maga or whatever name is current.. or what does it mean to have an internal-martial-art to develop power … as many examples seen don’t seem to develop power, at least not as commonly viewed, or assumed to be understood.
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I’d like to put out there two approaches- either “Isolation development” or “Mixed-assisted development”

As a context and example- SanTi training (as Ichuan postures are used as examples, or other standing postures- ala TaiChiChuan positions.. and SanTi seems a core-refined-root form)
Development of SanTi internal-power has different aspects- but I’ll focus upon An (or sinking-downward force), and primary-yet underlying is what could be Peng (or rising-upward force)…
The idea being that there is an “An” naturally (gravity and/or weight of the arms themselves so to speak).. so that just to hold them from falling down (or the rest of body held from the floor- but legs and balance) there needs to a be an upward-rising-filling support… then any added “internal An” boosts that.. (initially such an internal An could be an ounce, or half-an-ounce ie milligrams… and then built up in concentration/consistency and duration/intensity– as below Isolation vs Mixed-assisted…)

So the issue being if that initial “Peng” (first just against gravity and supporting one’s own weight.. and then any added weight = if another pushes on your arms, that adds weight-pressure and it is in a burst-shove which is more difficult to resist than a steady pressure.. . so if one can’t support one’s own weight, then any added “test” will more so… any An-chun on one’s self (which may be later exerted upon another directly as sinking) could act like an outward test- again, first one would need to be able to support without an add, before adding further.. thus the initial gravity- holding posture..

.. the Issue, being is that “peng” created by postural-antigravity (ie skeleton and muscles, just standing holding a shape), or by “relaxed” … then what holds up? (the inflation of peng, lengthening in&out, the rising-lifting through the etheric space- etc.. the test being- does it actually? -and if start at first with just a hint.. just a slight lift, then can build.. but if the first is “too little” it is like “Weeding” out your garden.. plucking out the plants your planted from seeds.. as they look too little- just sprouts (but they haven’t grown yet.. takes a while).. how support as they slowly develop.

So long-short: Isolation-development being- if you are developing say (Externally) your arm lifting “Only” from the scapula-shoulder-blade being pulled down, no use of the deltoid or lat or whatever.. if that muscle is undeveloped (in strength and in coordination) it won’t move well.. can you be ok with flailing about, and not quite doing the movement as you build-up to it, OR do you need to do the movement Outwardly-Appearing correct from the first?
one can do it so that it looks correct from the first- but not in Isolation-development (whether the inferior-scapula muscle to raise the arm in front of you, or the holding of SanTi or other posture like IChuan ZZ… and using only filling rising- one might only inflate and hold for a moment and then start to collapse, and rest and do again.. refill and rise, and then collapse, rest.. etc.. builds up that skill and capacity.. but seems so weak.. but if you do that way- any result is purely only from Isolation- from the skill seeking to devel.. so not muscular-leverage but.. something else-

If doing Mixed-Assisted: you realize you can’t do it, so you sort of try and partly use it.. and do the rest with other already existing capacity.. (like raising your arm with a tiny-bit of below scapula muscles, and some shoulder-neck-back, and some of the opposite arm reaching over and lifting that arm…. ) -problem being it is hard to be sure what you are doing, unless really clarify..

. the other method, is totally do it using existing skill- raise you arm as you can, and hope over time you can change and develop the skill to use a different way- to hold a posture just putting your arms up, and hope over time (by you ‘intent’ ? ) that you will develop a skill, beyond using the skeletal-frame

“What you practice you become.” -thus figure what you want to become, and practice doing that…

–but what if you can’t do that now- from here? approximation/bridging steps…

So I’d submit that actually doing (what I’m terming here) Isolation-development, may clash with how to train as seems whimpy bursts, and seems to build slowly (long learning-curve, and doesn’t look right.. but once built a foundation).. but the other seems to rapidly glass-ceiling.. and be off-track.. but how address the frustration..

[thus to test and be able to show- look I can do a Peng-rising force and other feels a slight wave-breeze like.. “bah! nothing.” so you quit, but in another frame, even getting any sensation that is unexpected is something, and over time to develop..? -plus to have muscular-strength and leverage to lift with arms&back could be useful/isometric training.. but what use? but to have Peng&An.. moves fluids in you, changes the focus and depth of presence in Mind, as well as affecting others martially-someday.. but the other benefits accrue.]

anyway- any thoughts?
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A couple other posts on this forum that might relate, and possibly be of interest- in this regard
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http://www.energyarts.com/forum/distinction-between-developing-internal-power-its-use-vs-seeking-foundation-begin

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To develop a new capacity, seeing how we assume we must approach it- makes sense of the step-by-steps… (and not just react on instinct, if just turn-off the mind and react, that isn’t developing a new reflex, a new pattern, a new skill.. and to enhance an ability- just like increasing finger coordination, or hand-eye coordination, or even greater skilled-strength, is a skill).. the systematic skill, or else a haphazard, whatever is there (which might limit the results one does, or doesn’t, achieve)
http://www.energyarts.com/forum/our-pop-cultures-approach-doing-things-and-obstacles-related-subject

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another posting about how to develop, my comment about how one needs to develop the qualities to be able to use those qualities, even to work with them.. can’t just jump to the end

http://www.energyarts.com/forum/external-internal
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Inquiry related to application and “use” … some perspectives:
http://www.energyarts.com/forum/internal-martial-arts-effectiveness-limited-training

[Anonymous]

Just to comment (on my own post:) to see if there might have been any thoughts on this… have people here considered this (whether starting out, or been developing a while- and looking to be sure one “has got it”, or even teaching to transfer these type of skills)…

What is the purpose of your training? Does that include a focus on developing a type of power (which can be termed “internal power” or -other than usual- not ordinary athletic development, in quality, not just in focus of the content, nor even the context).
Has what you have been working on developed that?

(many might be looking to develop/implement the steps as-given, to get better/develop skill/competence in the exercises- like able to stand per the standing,
or skill in pulsing (jts or otherwise)
or even being able to instigate a twisting (which then is expressed in different ways- outwardly or not)
Or other actions (just being “full in frame”, or having a calm, and yet full, mind-presence.. connected-free breathing.. or improved balance and thus basis of coodination/agility or ~root)….

one can work to do those, in order to be better at them- and how they express, ie how they can be used, or influence/power movements, might be a different issue. -Just being able to do the components, and the form of say Marriage of Heaven&Earth chigung set, one can develop work on, until can do it well, for its own sake (without any “in order to” without any focus on what is it for).

..so that can change the eval-sense of “purpose” -context of why, and thus how, one trains.

-any thoughts on that?

(best wishes to all practicing these arts, let alone those investigating and exploring to see beneath the surface- whether reading this forum or elsewhere).

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(beyond above thread-posts, the below might also relate…
http://www.energyarts.com/forum/muscle-training#comment-19871

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