Rounded Shoulder Posture = Forward Head Syndrome?

[Anonymous]

Hey All!

I’m currently attending school for Massage Therapy and learning my fair share of anatomy. Previously, I had studied a bit of Chen Style Taijiquan and Cheng Style Baguazhang as well as some of the related forms of Qi Gong. The curriculum at my Massage school is primarily Western-Based with a little Eastern (Shiatsu… I was saddened when it wasn’t Tui Na, though there is at least some overlap in the lingo!) and I always love when there is overlap.

However, one thing that has puzzled me is how in several texts, including Bruce’s texts and just about every other Internal Text I’ve read, the preferred postures involved:

1. A sunken chest
2. Palms facing backwards (at least mentioned in Energy Gates. I assume this is primarily to keep the channel that runs through the armpit open).
3. Shoulders rounded forward (The above two kind of accomplish this but even in styles of Bagua, for example in the classic stance, the leading hand is pushing outwards with the shoulder forward, and the guarding hand, though in front, is also causing the shoulder to round forward).

This worries me as it seems like a lot of Body Mechanics and studying of different postural dysfunction goes against this and that this tends to be a recipe for what’s called Forward Head Syndrome (something I have).

Though a few things can cause this to happen, in me at least, the muscles of my chest are shortened and weak, and my upper back muscles are overstretched and weak. In many people, their head will also jut out forward (hence the name). This is an extremely common condition and can cause all sorts of issues, possibly interfering with the nerves in the Brachial Plexus and I have some slight weakness in my Left Arm.

I wonder if this is correct or if I’m not quite “getting” the alignment. Maybe there is a happy medium. I’m not advocating the opposite “Military Posture” but are we actually looking for a medium? Or is this a case where these postures are not meant to stand alone and I should spend plenty of time stretching myself the other way?

This has been a real puzzler for me! Any thoughts?

-G

[Anonymous]

Hello- my twocents (having looked at that issue myself- while I studied kinesiology, as well as changed myself (espec Connective Tissue System-
I was fairly bound up, still am a bit, releasing twistings, so I can quite feel it when not releasing smoothly). also in a position where the body is supporting a load, the alignment becomes more clear…
in essence, the main thing I’ve noted is that I couldn’t see things until I released an imbalance (even if I thought I could)- ie until a layer of imbalance was brought back into integration I couldn’t recognize it, and so it was reinterpreted by my perception… that may not relate to what you are speaking of, but it seems you referenced a sense of seeking to see something you sense you weren’t seeing (which is how I perceived it, and continue to- ongoing “re-calibration”)

In short- a key is your point #1, sunken chest.. which is a good explicit statement of a way that point is perceived, but that helps clarify the point, as – my understanding- sunken chest is not at all the same thing as sought.. (nor, as you state, is “miitary chest”)– key being the bound conditions (the 4 types of “blockages) one being a sense of tension… another being a sense of strength- so even if not “tight and “strong” sense from ‘isometric”- not even an “obvious-feeling” which would be strength… the chest (espec the energy in that area more than the muscles and frame alignment) is released…
imagine the ribs- connections to clavical/sternum and spine- as well as Scapulas in back, and all the internal-soft tissue and organs inside- all become loose so each part can/does move independent of the others- and yet connected.. (thus all alive (felt best in the lungs becoming more free)

-the sticking point- the standard “fixed” ribs-torso shape is not “1 thing”, so in transition becomes alive and moves more (thus as accustom the bindings “weakpts” can be stressed).. but once new balance is achieved- all the parts become again a new whole. No longer “separate parts” but not stuck together again. (this may seem indirect and unclear, but I realize as I started to write this that what I have discovered in this work is the feeling is different- and any attempt to describe the “chigung” (or especially the “bagua Dr Body”) is misleading, as like in TaiChiChuan (and chigung/neigung) the phrase be relaxed-loose-full”~sung” often interpreted as “be as relaxed as possible” or “not use large muscles” vs recognize; what if they meant what was literally said and what is being described is a different state of being, and thus the mind in that state of being will see-feel-know (as well as be able to move in ways) different… so how easy to explain to be understood before that “transformation” work.

Anyway- hope that might imply something (?) but I often sense 3 things working with this issue: bindings are often in blindspots (both in terms of suppose they must need to be there- as in “how else?” and hard to recognize, as mind doesn’t “go there”), when enter such a spot I find my “breathing” and sense of awareness (filling of the enviro I’m in, as well as Internal mind-space) grows- and a settling linking sort of: stepping onto slightly wet sand and gradually sink a bit before new foundation-solid ground.. I find I can tell when I’m close if I feel “frustrated” and vague (any way of changing- won’t be within one’s current movement-vocabulary or else you’d be doing it).. so how to “Struggle” and “eat bitter” (?)

I’d connect above to #2 and #3 also- I’d say its not a Middle Ground- nor is it “rounded forward” and not sunken chest- its a different kinesic-context.. like the idea of Pung- arising from Sung (which is more like biscuit-dough that is rising and slightly spongey..with a bit of an inflating tire, or waterballoon being filled.. rather than lifting, nor reaching..)- that feeling-movement is inside chest and shoulders; as well as having the above in chest and shoulders results in that feeling-movement of the frame.

I’d connect it to biodynamics and perhaps Rolfing work (if done gently encouraging a release vs pulling fascial bindings apart)- in the sense that it happens over time, and as it occurs one needs to “reintegrate” to the new sense of being…. Goal being in TaiChi, NeiGung, Tao-Med, the way one does anything won’t be-coming from the same mind-space.. all that is distinct from same an “alignment-concept” where a coach-could point out something one does and say change how you do that, and moments later- ah change.. what you write about our mind wan’ts to think how should I not do it, so I can see it changed right now..
but the trick seems to be internal bindings (in spine, around heart/lungs and diaphram…) if you changed at once by pulling the ribs and spine out in all directions- to pull out against all the internal bindings- that could rip and tear, not only damage, but miss the whole point (like “untying” a knot of rope by cutting it up- no longer a knot, but no longer a rope either) .. once the internal bindings are released, skeleton and fluid vessels aren’t stuck in place, so they re-distribute pressure by shifting, so things readjust… this can result in bear shoulders- and chest “dropping” (note: dropping down–towards pelvis and feet, Not Sunken “in-towads spine”)

this is in contrast to “rising chi” ( best is mammal example- cat, or dog, fur standing up- eyes wide- UP on toes- growling-hissing.. and a literal feeling up lifting “energy” although weight stays dropped- the Fear-mixed with returned aggression response… or a person feeling threatened-challenged, not just danger, but socially putdown for ex- that sense of slowly turning to look and meet the gaze;; back of neck tense…. =rising chi… dropping in the front is the reverse of that… and as it goes down it simultaneously rises (back fills and the shoulders “round” to balance that drop

(again not collapse nor compress inward… but notice to get the shoulder-blades/back-spine to A) lengthen by releasing and relax-filling, not lift and expand from spine outward to scapulas to shoulder-AC jt.. not so much on the surface but inside…. one tries to do that, “with internal bindings” – so that growing turns into collapse and contracting- trying to force a lengthening, but stuck… once some releasing, now room to move, but doesn’t happen at once..

in short- my sense was 1) that I tried to interpret directions I learned in this in terms of what I already knew-felt and yet I recognized that I likely didn’t have such options in my “inventory” as I was Seeking a NervousSystem upgrade (new baseline, not just a change but expansion) and 2) that it was like trying to “find the glass ceiling” and that I’d have a subcon temptation to “reinterp” cuz it was frustrating

---

anyway- I hope that might help some, and elicit something. I’d recommend watching the 2 videos just posted to EnergyArtsVideo’s YouTube (and on the TaiChiMastery Blog)- or if you’ve seen, I can relate those “taichi internal components” to this question of yours (made more directly applied in Energy Gates… which in that book of his I’ve found a depth of concepts, not explicitly evident but arise with many readings for me– so rather than even movements of TaiChi, just the 5 parts of E Gates, Standing, CloudHands and 3 swings- different aspects appear and get wired in from each- and then show up in the others.. over time.

[Anonymous]

I am thinking about these questions a lot too and hope Bruce includes something about these questions in the Tai Chi Mastery Program. Another aspect is the forward wrapping in the hing-i and bagua that might contribute to a forward rounded posture as well.

I am pondering whether these instructions to sink your chest and round your shoulders in the classics were more relevant for farmers and manual workers and might be less relevant for the people of today who mostly work in front of computers for hours and have a forward rounded posture because of that kind of work. That of course is pure speculation. But the question you raised is on of the most important questions in my practice at the moment (actually I am practicing yoga specifically to avoid the forward rounded posture from computer work).

[Anonymous]

I’ve done various things that all have different takes on what constitutes “good” or “desirable” posture and back in the day noticed many differences of opinion on this topic between yoga and taoism.

In my experience, and I’ve done the Taoist stuff well and had no problems and i’ve done the Taoist stuff and had “forward head” and associated things, the thing to do is to make sure to perform that head lift and while doing it don’t tilt your head or jut if forward. When I worked in more cerebral jobs forward head was an issue and I’d come home and do yoga and taoist stuff and still have forward head. In school when I did cerebral stuff but kept it in check I was able to do taoist posture without forward head. After leaving cerebral workplaces and now doing something else [medical] forward head isn’t commonly an issue. For me thinking “one spine, elongated” is basically what I do for good posture. Bruce’s system talks about what I’d almost call “one spine 2 segments, where above the neck and below the neck act as two distinct things”. IME that worked well whenever I made sure not to tilt my head too far forward. However, if I did tilt my head forward I often didn’t notice till later, and thats part of why I went back to “one spine, elongated.” “One spine 2 segments” was cool but I found it kinda intense in a “zen” way and which sometimes is hard to maintain and sometimes can make other people think your too intense.

That’s my experience on this topic.

[Anonymous]

The forward head thing is something I’ve been working on. You just have to raise your spine and keep it there. That’s all there is to it.

If you round your shoulders while maintaining this state they will stay connected and in their optimal position. Try pushing your shoulders forward while your spine is raised. You can’t do it in the same way as you would normally. They want to stay in position. The only way in which you can then do it is to relax your back muscles such that you can lengthen around to your arms. I think this is the essence of rounding the shoulders in this manner.

Sinking the chest makes more sense when looking at what I just mentioned. It is absolutely not dropping your rib cage as your rib cage is connected to your spine and must lift with it. Raise your spine and rib cage together, but sink everything in and around it.

[Anonymous]

Hey All!

Thanks for the replies! Instead of replying to each one one at a time, it looks like there are a lot of similarities so I thought I’d address them here…

One idea, primarily from what I gather is from Gary B.’s response, there is an element of fascial bindings that need to be released. Part of my Massage Therapy curriculum covers Myofascial Release which I feel will be useful in this. If this is the source of the issue, it also lends me some worry with some of the other responses…

One of the symptoms of my Forward Head Posture, the one I’m mostly concerned about is the actual forward shoulder position. I’m more concerned/curious about it for two reasons:

1> From a Body Mechanics standpoint, having the shoulder “sucked in” as Gray Cook (of FMS Fame, look him up. He is awesome.) actually integrates your body better. I know that in doing treatments, making my shoulders are back and down gives me a LOT more power when using my body weight with much little effort. This seems to be what the Internal Arts is looking for (this type of integration) but it’s asking for the opposite posture. Can someone help me clear up this confusion?

2> The difference in sensation I experience in my Left Arm, as well as my weakness, can be the start of the end of the career I’m currently pursuing. If this is somehow related to a possible impingement in my Brachial Plexus or elsewhere related, I do not want to make it worse by standing in the bad position for extended lengths of time.

For Bruce’s instruction to have the palms facing backwards to keep the channels open in the armpits, that posture is actually a sign of possible dysfunction when we view potential clients. This is echoed in several different modalities of massage.

From having work done on me, I know my Chest is extremely tight, and I have several trigger points in my Rhomboids and Trapezius to thank for it (since they’re pulling hard against it but aren’t quite strong enough so overworking). I worry that if I “relax”, it’s just me letting the Chest win out as well, the muscles are shorter right now.

@Dirk – I think you may be on to something, about how it may have been more relevant to their culture than our mostly sedentary one.

I don’t know if Bruce replies on here but I am desperately seeking an answer to this or some type of practice. I feel like I’m at a crossroads in my career and in my own practice and it feels like a damned if I do, damned if I don’t situation. I know jumping back into Internal Work will be good for me, but if something as fundamental as the posture will exacerbate an already painful shoulder and an arm showing some negative feedback… well… I’d really really hate to choose.

One other thought I had was expressed in classes of Frank Allen’s (as well as his book) at least for the Bagua Stance in terms of walking the circle. About the 4-stages which require you to essentially compress and expand your joints with each step (4 step cycle through one step I believe) to pump the synovial fluid. This makes more sense with stretching joints. But I can’t figure it out for something like Standing Post where you’re essentially still.

Thanks again for your feedback. Gary B., apologies but I’m having some difficulty piercing your language but I see what looks like a ton of great insight in there. I will try again later!

And if anyone else can chime in, please do!!
-Gary

[Anonymous]

Hello Gary –

I salute your investigating this issue, as well as interest in this subject in general- the idea of seeking to improve one’s physical being (resting posture, movement, as well as the “mental-emotional” states supported by) is spoken of in our culture, but not many actually stay with the changes from such a practice, nor the practices them-selves.

First I’d emphasize that in my experience in this that this sort of practice can indeed make big changes over time and doesn’t need to be done in a “tense way” and doesn’t have other shortcoming-costs of damage offsetting any gains- keeping that in mind I was/am able to see misunderstandings via my-our cultural “googles” of interpretation.

(thx for your reply about you sensing, and perhaps gaining?, something from my first reply, I struggled to anticipate how I would have mis-interp’d mis-understood what I was writing when I had similar questions, so my wording was/is likely awkward as I feel-know-see that our cultural vocab (in general-understanding as well as Specifically “physical-therapy” based upon mechanical-terms connected parts, vs the self-healing living and integrated whole that the Taoist Healing systems, espec the “Water Method” TAO, is based upon.)

The model Bruce often used is the vibrant-youth energy of a newborn-with the strength and coordination of an older- but the way the infants squirm as a coiling twising whole- a grip of the fingers uses not fingers, not just the whole palm- but connects directly all the way into the torso to the Ab-core, even involving the feet and legs.. as well as the Gushy- hotwater bottle feeling of their whole being- not stuck parts (clays upon sticks, as “hardened” flesh upon bones- attached parts).. even after a sauna- hottub and full massage an “adult” isn’t as released as an newborn…. and that is the feeling that releases the spine-neck inside the brain/skull by the eyes/ears- as well as organs, etc..

Imagine a water balloon (or just an airfilled balloon) with a number of rubber bands and strings “inside the balloon” each end attached to opposite sides of the balloon.. each a bit shorter than the balloon is trying to expand to…

Resulting balloon- not a sphere- uneven surface- and trying to “stretch out” a certain internal binding (string-rubberband) not only doesn’t fix the others, but is further distorted by other directional lines… The key (either done “to” another: ChiGungTuiNa, or done “through” one’s own self… NeiGung: more so in Stationary Standing or Seeated than the moving… Moving, like Bagua, needs to have already released such- in order to so move).. Key in this “metaphor” is the “internal bindings” (strings and rubber bands) as well as the pressure of the balloon going out- equalized and Settle into- all at once.

This results in the release of that imbalancing pulls- and then the balloon can expand as it will… (ex not just inside the joints, and the cavity-pockets, but the softtissue/fluid vessels, etc. as complete units…) .. so not “lift up, or stretch out spine (Fwd Head being bindings inside the neck holding short- push up, bends the arc- and thus pulls.. strain against that pull- worst case tear, or at least ache/tension…

But that full- released “HotTub Sauna Massage” gushy feeling…

How to approach that- that is the issue of different neigung components. Per details, one can break them down in many ways, but overall the 16 that Bruce clusters at the top level.. which is the access? anyway- depends… as well as how instruction is received where one is at: for ex using Breahing… the TAO breathing concepts in Bruce’s Recorded materials…. knowing that practice time regularly repeating and over time, gradually the nerves release and restructure.

That espec relates to your ending about Bagua stepping… (expand-compress jts being a side affedt that is actually stronger when stand, or sit, but OpenClose- let alone Shring and Grow is not outwardly visible… done for a few minutes (stationary practice, OR While you are working upon the table)- you feel a connectedness and an increase of that Gushy feeling (HotTub Sauna Massage)…. it isn’t a hold-gring and bear it.. if you are moving or still and not feeling more of that gushiness….. than it is being developed, but not there..

Taken into account that Bagua is known to regenerate and keep vibrant older into Eighties whether scholarly background, or physcial laborers, leisure, crafters.. all used the same ideas… so in that context I would feel confident these arts can give you the connection and rehab you are looking for (you haven’t stated, but seem younger than those that have started these arts in their 60s-70s even more bound up and stiff)
But I do see a wide spread misapplication- that is based upon having the “real stuff” (as from EnergyArfts), let alone if has some context as many other “popular” systems that aren’t Water method, either Fire Method, or just nopainnogain…
For reference of that last concept I often review the chapters starting, and especially ending “Opening the Energy Gates” -like where he briefly but packed-ly described damage from mispractice, and each example given to me seems not to be a mistake, but rather someone thiinking well obvously ___XYZ

I tried to add to the above to draw to the viewpoint that sees this subject differently, rather than translate into the usual viewpoint.. I hope it might be clear (especially ten yyrs back how bound up I was, and that was after years of similar practices, and physio study… but not until the “tempering-process of this transforming work- and now- anyway I think I had many of the same bindings and same questions you are listing..

I hope this might add something cheers

g

[Anonymous]

Hello just a quick second thought:

Below might be referring to diagnosis of posture- either standing “neutral” analysis as well as in a particular action-position- to recognize underlying tensions, etc.
>>>
For Bruce’s instruction to have the palms facing backwards to keep the channels open in the armpits, that posture is actually a sign of possible dysfunction when we view potential clients. This is echoed in several different modalities of massage.
<<<
The key is Basic Energy Gates Stance isn’t walking around pose, and the issue is where the changes in the frame come from… because of the circular aspect of this subject one doesn’t really “do” basic practices until integrated a sense of them through later practices.. for ex to get into a position: the twist starts inside the soft tissue- and later inside the guts.. not just “rotate” the AC jt, but like twisting a rope- rope hanging below that twist rotates- from inside the tissue..

this might relate to your reference to shoulder back and in (I believe termed joint in the packed position, or Shoulder-pack- aligning the joint… that is like saying the knee joint should be lined up Mech_Engineer-wise, but twisting in the calf and in the thigh link up- but the knee joint isn’t torn with a dis-alignment

You mentioned at bottom 4 part stepping with Frank A. (of NY?), I don’t know if you still work with him, or might attend a weekend seminar of his- if he still does them- I attended some Frank Classes way back, and he might be able to address some of your cdmments, but he’s been doing these arts so long, and I recall him coming-from a bit more of a make it happen physiology, it might be a bit out of context for your transition-application of this. (side note: not sure if any E Arts instructors are local to you, just a few comments from someone that has the physiology you are seeking…
so often I’ve seen Massage School instructors, let alone practitioners (even more so Rehab, Osteo, and “Martial Arts” teachers)teaching about the anatomy models, practices etc. and yet A) do they have the relaxed-connected- strong.. etc you are seeking and who have they helped to transition from a simliar state you feel you are At to where you seek to go/be (ie and thus this “Client” has progressed- so interacting with them you have direct contact with the “state you seek” NVC (non-verbal comm) mirror-neurons/unconmodeling, etc. can pick up much through this, let alone it analyzes- do you really see it? Show Me State and all that.

cheers g

ps hopefully you might have perused the other posting questions and replies upon this site- even “unrelated” much of value in many replies by otherrs on these EnergyArts Forums

[Anonymous]

Third thought- I wrote in above it was to be brief, and yet truly brief would be addressing that your questions seem to be that you recognize that:
1) Learning this subject might be of help in your healing, your work-occupation, and your life-development (many paths- so first whether one connects with this one, if so..)
2) That you sense you could benefit by corrections in misunderstandings (and perhaps misteachings) you might have, not just that things are- but questioning how could it be better, and perhaps this is off…
3) a greater expansion of learning beyond correcting what is known

above 3 would indicate your real question is about this subject, and the answer how to release, how to practice, etc… is to learning the 16 NeiGung system- either through “corrections-fdbk” from a practitioner that consults now-and-again (whether near or far- to get CourseCorrections, then return home practice- then later- recalibrared, etc) and/or classes.. I don’t know if you’ve looked at that already (any instructors you’ve visited- class or seminar?)

*for ref http://www.energyarts.com/energy-arts-instructor-community

There is a huge amount in each sentence of Bruce’s books (ex Energy Gates, there are points that are mentioned in one sentence- that then illuminate other sections of the book- then once practiced illuminate other practices) and videos and audios (espec the breathing and meditation materials)- but less of a do-this and that.. but getting into a mindset.. from that, things are seen differently, but that requires complete rewiring-the body

(I’ve found Seeing Opening Closing will make no sense until one can “do” it a bit, and then you can See it a bit, and from that understand it better- which then allows one to Get how to do it… and then another sticking point of not being able to see what “should be clear”.. etc. As I release layers of blocks, and free up and link together different structures in my body- I can in a moment see in others, just an actors face and posture on TV and I see things that I used to have in me, post-shift I can see…. and each step the “revelation” is something I couldn’t have anticipated.. I had many thoughts- ah it will be something like ___ (never has been close…. and yet there is that feeling, ah from here I can see what I’ll next… or “can’t it be translated in to how I can think/selfspeak/vfeel before I start?” like ingredients in a kitchen can fall together to create a complex dish- let alone computer chips fall into a pattern to “accidentally” create a server-motherboard, and yet we think the TAO health systems are pretty much the same of modern practices, a pinch of this and a bit of that..

ok above ended in a rantish sounding- I regret that, but it seems these posts are caused by something I’m not quite clear on (just below my conscious awareness) that I’m trying to make clear to myself.. not just trying to respond to this forum subject question(s) but clarify the related thoughts-issue

anyway- I hope this might click something for someone- luck

[Anonymous]

hi gary and everyone

seems to me the central point about all this is the spine; since your arms, shoulders, head and ribs are basically stacked on top of or are pulling on the spine. a major goal in taoist chi gung and martial arts is to allow the unrestricted movement of the spine, along with the arms, shoulders, ribs, etc.

the “military posture” seems to lock down the entire upper body somewhat, using tension to keep things in place. that works ok if you have a straight spine, but if you have curvature, no amount of pulling the shoulders back or lifting the ribs is ever going to get your spine to straighten out, simply because the tension, whatever else it is doing, is reducing the mobility of the spine.

in taoist body posture, instead of lifting the upper body up from the spine, you allow the soft tissue to release and relax, so that the entire spine, particularly the musclature and ligaments of the inner spine, can be free to move.

if you simply round the chest or sink the chest, you might droop. but the other half of it is;
as one part sinks, another rises. you would want to be allowing the spine to open up and straighten as you let the chest relax and release. this creates a situation where the upper body is aligned, but significantly more relaxed.

Ding, or feeling like your head is nailed to the ceiling, also helps to allow the spine to develop a more upright smooth curve. but this can only happen if all the musculature of the torso is loose and can move with the spine. if not, things just seem to stay stuck.

the chi gung sets of marriage of heaven and earth and bend the bow are where bruce showed me this stuff, but they are also essential for all 3 internal arts, particularly taiji. if your shoulders are not very relaxed and open, the power from the tan tien, legs, and spine cannot flow through the arms as it should. having had bruce throw me around somewhat, you can really feel how his power is not coming from his arms, but his spine, tan tien and legs. he’s very clear that you can’t really generate internal power without FULLY opening up the arms, shoulders, neck…

for bodyworkers, having the spine and shoulders working well together creates a LOT of strength, that doesn’t get tired, and also has a lot of sensitivity. the military posture, or generally using tension to create strength on the table, wears people out. I have seen a lot of therapists get burned out, partially because of chronic pain and tension in their wrists, arms, and shoulders. But by using the taoist movement method, I can stay relaxed and still bring a LOT of strength, and endurance, that also has a lot of sensitivity.

I spent years kinda going back and forth, comparing the different methods, and at a certain point, I kinda just noticed that the more I practiced and noticed things, the less sense the tension model made, and the more sense the relaxation model made, and I just kinda rolled with that. it’s been difficult, because it’s hard to simply explain it to someone.
but it’s great, because relaxed beats tense, hands down.

hope this helps, best of training.
richard

[Anonymous]

For me it was the mis interpretaion of the word sunken. I used a very strong dropping of the chest , which got my arms connected but later realized it was compressing things and that was in the not good category. Played around alot and came to find two things for me. One that a slight inward and the slightest movement down of the breast bone got the connection I was looking for to the arms and more importantly opened up the thoracic spine articulation from the ribs. and two once the breastbone was in place opening the tissues of the chest to the sides brought a new opening and roundness in the upper lungs and upper back region with out creating any misalignment in the neck and head. took me forever to get it just right but people “fry away” when it is there. Hope this helps. PS I agree fully with Richard that once you can get this, you can work all day and not be all bound up afterwards like so many bodyworkers I know. The strength of the arch you are creating is quite useful in my own experience.
Aaron

[Anonymous]

Hello- I’m not sure if Gary Au might see this forum posting any more, I just wondered if any experience/development over the time that has passed unfurled this issue. (what was discovered).

Never know how it might help any who might read this (great thoughts by Richard and Aaron)… I find the “tempering” aspect of this practice changes one over time (vs just doing something ‘today’) thus the relation to fascial binding (per above),
and as mentioned above positions that “lock the body down” (if one isn’t integrated- if unlock you crumble, but once DragonBody is activated- int’l alignments then can support- and one doesn’t need to be “locked down” but can Move and Breathe).

[Anonymous]

For me in particular I have discovered that my hunched posture is corrected by a slight rotation of the rib cage. I lift up slightly at the front and this allows my collarbones to expand out and the anterior side of my spine opens up. In contrast when I thought about the posterior side of my spine I got nowhere because it was already open. It makes a big difference for me.

[Author]

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