Simplified 8 Palms

[Anonymous]

If you haven’t seen it, Isaac posted a nice video demonstrating a simplified version of all eight palm changes. It is worth checking out. I particularly liked it, because it reminds me that the form isn’t the palm change but at the same time there is a particular movement that hints to the energy that each palm change represents.

[Anonymous]

Thanks James.
Isaac Kamins April 11 2016 ?
Yes, very nice.

But the more Bagua I see, the more I realize that I have no idea what Bagua is.

Academically I dig the way you associate Bagua with trigrams and hexagrams.

I’m taking a second summer of classes with Ted (student of the late Robert W. Smith)

Ted does a linear 64 Bagua form.
He knows nothing about trigrams and hexagrams or the I-Ching.
He knows each move by its martial application.

What gives?

[Anonymous]

If you haven’t learned the eight palm changes, I’d suggest you find Paul Cavel’s Bagua Zhang demos and contrast the two videos. The simplified versions that Isaac demonstrates are pared down and so understated (like when he performs the Wind palm) that you may miss what he is doing.

In contrast, Paul’s versions have extra turnings, circling, and flourish that can obscure the point or essence of the palm change.

As always, Bruce teaches the FORMS of the palm changes in a slightly different manner each time, but the energy is always consistent. IMO this is possible because Bruce is extraordinarily clear about what, how, and why: he knows what the palm changes are and has the skill to perform them. In the end, the palm changes are a sophisticated skill.

[Anonymous]

This is a great question.

There are a lot of very good practitioners around and lots of good fighters. I think there are less than a handful that know what the internal arts really are about. Again, there are many many people that know pieces and parts of the internal arts and that are very very good, but…

I said this in another post, at some point everyone is going to have to decide if they believe that there is more to these arts and whether they believe Liu Hung Chieh was what Bruce has described.

If you make the leap, then you realize how unique Bruce’s experience is.

The next question is has Bruce taught anyone yet? What do you think?

[Anonymous]

Thanks again James.

Paul Cavel demonstrated nicely the point of change–
the 3rd step and turn.
Isaac is smooth, but I can’t isolate a point of change.

My bagua teacher this morning seemed to indicate that the 2d Palm change is in the 4th step.
(I don’t get it.)

This advances my understanding of bagua a bit.

But I still don’t see how you associate a specific trigram of the I-Ching with one particular style of the Eight Palm changes.

By the way, I’m currently experimenting with initially walking the circle downward clockwise (like you suggest: Wind, Water, Mountain, Earth–increasing Yin to its extreme).

But then I switch through the center along the yin-yang line to Heaven–Earth’s opposite
and start walking the circle again downward, but counter-clockwise,
again increasing Yin to its extreme, Earth.
Heaven, Valley, Fire, Thunder, Earth.

This is consistent with yang guas of the Heaven trigram gradually changing to yin guas.

Furthermore, I have associated the eight trigrams with the Eight Extraordinary Vessels.

Downward Clockwise:
Heaven: Du Mai
Wind: Yin Wei Mai
Water: Chong Mai
Mountain: Yin Chiao Mai
Earth: Ren Mai

Switching through Center
Earth to its opposite, Heaven

Then downward again, but Counter-clockwise:
Heaven: Du Mai
Valley: Yang Chiao Mai
Fire: Dai Mai
Thunder: Yang Wei Mai
Earth: Ren Mai

This, however, still doesn’t get me anywhere near understanding the 8 Palm Changes and their relationships with the pre-heaven bagua trigrams.

Keep me going.

[Anonymous]

“But I still don’t see how you associate a specific trigram of the I-Ching with one particular style of the Eight Palm changes.”

IMO, that’s because you don’t do this. The problem is that no one really knows what this is all about except for a very tiny number of people on the planet. I believe that Bruce is one of them, but he is the only person I’ve ever met that does know.

[Author]

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