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I just started watching the Thunder Palm modules that got released. These are great! If you haven’t bought them yet and are hesitating – don’t. These are going to be invaluable to anyone who really wants to learn Bagua.
That said, I’d also add that unless you get the 16 part neigung (all 16 parts) under your belt, you’ll never understand how Bruce is doing the Thunder Palm or the real change that it represents – NEVER.
James –
I was going to ask this of the EA staff, but since you’re looking at them already –
How much do you think a motivated/interested/reasonably talented person can learn from these videos? Do you think it’s probable to really learn the palms from them? Or are they primarily valuable as information for those who have received prior in person training in the fundamentals?I ask because it’s highly unlikely that I’ll ever be able to attend a live training, and there are no bagua teachers near my area, and so I won’t be able to get instruction/correction. The videos in the original BMP on the double, wind and water palms were very worthwhile from a philosophical standpoint, although from an actually learning the movements from scratch standpoint not very helpful as they were so broken up and didn’t even show the entire palm movement all the way through (though I honestly haven’t looked at them in quite a while either).
Over the years, I’ve worked out my own energetic palm change flows based on the trigrams and hexagrams, which work for me – but I’m quite sure they bear no relationship to the actual physical palm movements – which leads into many other questions, but perhaps another time on those.
Any thoughts will be appreciated.
Peter
NEVER will I get bagua,
but life is too short to NOT try.
I got through Thunder Palm Strike Video Lesson 11 while driving to and from a Tai Chi Workshop in the rain at 70 mph without crashing (Thunder).
Bagua is certainly superior to a Marie Callender’s Sesame Chicken frozen dinner,
but then, it was only $2.
Why would I make a statement like this and what does it really mean?
All of the 16 part neigung is needed. You need Bend the Bow to balance the body and gain access to the side channels. The side channels start to open the central channel which gives you access to the lower tan tien and further opens the side channels. The lower tan tien is a special point on the central channel. It helps open the upper tan tien, another special point on the central channel. The lower and upper together open the middle tan tien which you use to further open the central channel. Etc., etc.
All of it is necessary to gain access to the tai chi space. Bagua is playing in the tai chi space. Without it, you can’t play. You’re not in the game and you are just waving your arms around. The important point is that all of it is needed; otherwise, the flows just aren’t strong enough to work with them in any practical manner.
Ditto to Robert. That’s exactly what I thought when I signed up for the first bagua mastery. That’s still the way I feel about signing up for the 2nd set. I am lucky to have found a way to learn about this, though I had thought it was inconceivable before. Even if I don’t make it to the level of James, I am learning so much at each step!
My grandma said “Take biscuits when biscuits are passed.”
Jennifer Gardiner
All I can tell you is that I was able to, but I struggle with the same problem and that’s why I asked for all of the palm changes to be filmed. The EA team did post the single and water palms.
The problem is that the form isn’t Bagua, but as soon as Bruce publishes a version of the palm forms the vast majority will latch onto that form as if it is the end all. Nothing could be further from the truth.
I’ll add that the Thunder palm is the best module in the program to teach the actual energy of the palm change (so far). Bruce also has some important comments about yin and yang that helped clarify my confusion. Without these videos, I wouldn’t know what the Thunder palm was about. No one else is teaching this stuff — you have to know it to teach it. The Thunder palm is particularly good because Bruce is particularly clear about this change.
The DVDs won’t do any good sitting on a shelf, but if you really want to learn Bagua there’s nothing better out there.
I’ve finished going through all of the Thunder palm videos. I’ll add to my previous comments that this is not only the best module in the program – it teaches the energy of Heaven and Earth better than the entire BMP combined.
Bruce’s clarity is remarkable.
The form is broken down into pieces that require some level of mastery over an incredible amount of material that Bruce has taught over the past four decades, but if you’ve got the background and have trained, Bruce is showing exactly how it is done. These videos capture the energy of Heaven, Earth, Thunder, and emptiness. They also clarify many points of confusion that I’ve personally struggled with. Particularly regarding the nature of yin and yang. Not only are yin and yang clarified, Bruce also explains the four corners which in retrospect is the source of a lot of the confusion.
EA Team, thanks for all of your work to get these released.
I hope my posts don’t discourage people, that’s not my intent. They are intended to inspire. If I’ve finally understood what Bruce has been trying to teach, that is great news for every one of Bruce’s students because it demonstrates that it is possible.
Since this is a Thunder palm thread I’ll phrase it this way: the shock that Bruce experienced when Wang Shu Jin’s students gave him a proverbial lesson could have discouraged Bruce to give up martial arts and it almost did just that. Instead, the gentle rain came and Bruce realized that if they could learn, he could learn.
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