Contradiction between Bruce’s book and Bill’s video regarding position of feet relative to hands

Home Forums Archive Dragon & Tiger Qigong Online Program Week 2 Q&A Contradiction between Bruce’s book and Bill’s video regarding position of feet relative to hands

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  • #128979

    Anonymous
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    Hi all, late in the day for a Week 2 posting but I just received Bruce Frantzis’s book on Dragon and Tiger and have a question relating to the position of the feet in relation to that of the hands.

    Bruce Frantzis states that the foot should be timed exactly with hand movements, so that when the hand has reached the bottom of its traverse only then does the heel meet the floor. In this scenario, as the hands cross each other at around the qwa point, both feet are raised halfway, one descending and the other ascending. The hand should be timed with the downward movement, so that it enters the ‘rest’ position beside the leg as the heel meets the floor, and not before.

    This seem in flat contradiction to the video demo. Here Bill’s foot is already on the floor even before the descending hand passes his qwa. So the foot remains on the floor for a few seconds before lifting again as the ascending hand passes the qwa.

    In his book, Bruce says at no time should any of the elements stop moving, as this has a negative effect on the chi flow.

    Any takers on which is correct/preferred? I’ve noted that Bruce’s version seem to make weight transference that much more difficult. Also, it is more difficult to relax the raised leg as there comes a point where both heels are off the ground, halfway up and halfway down!

    #133907

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Are you reading the lst Dragon and Tiger book or the new one? If anyone has the new one, does it contain the basis of the first one or does it build completely new material?

    #133908

    Anonymous
    Guest

    It assumes you know the basics and builds on that.

    #133909

    Anonymous
    Guest

    thank you.

    #133910

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi, David. Did you ever get an answer to this? I’ve also been wondering about the discrepancy. Perhaps one of the teachers could provide some feedback based on their live training? Having both heels off the ground simultaneously feels awkward (disconnected?) to me, but I could get used to it if there are qi benefits.

    I’m also confused about how the feet and hands work together during the transition from one side to the other: the top hand rotates over, the bottom hand rotates inward to the inside of the leg, and the legs do…? At the the moment I’m staying on the weighted leg and settling my weight (sitting back and down very slightly) while the hands rotate. I’m not sure if I should instead start shifting weight to the other side immediately while rotating the arms. Thoughts?

    #133911

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Having studied the video with Bill I decided what he is doing must be correct, irrespective of what the book says.

    No one is coming out to clarify this issue, so that was my decision.

    With regard to your question, I’ll pay attention to it in my practice tonight and get back to you tomorrow.

    Regards. Nice to get some sort of response to what is, I think, an important issue to clarify. I agree, being up on two feet is very awkward.

    Actually, I think a ‘treading water’ analogy is useful, in that it gives that sense of ‘tiger’ movement. But I go with Bill at the moment until I hear otherwise. The alternative is just too awkward.

    #133912

    Anonymous
    Guest

    HI all,

    David, you’re right to ask, and also right to figure out what works best for you. As we always say, there are the details of what ultimately is ideal to do, i.e. what’s in the book, and then there are the practicalities of what works for you at any; time.

    The big overriding principle, of course, is the 70% or “don’t strain” principle. As you noticed, for you – and for most beginners – trying to do it “right” by the book – creates strain. For most people, the calves tighten significantly if they try to do it “correctly” at the beginning. So that’s why I teach beginners to put one foot down and then raise the other. This allows you to do the movement with not strain, and to find a relaxed, rhythmical movement.

    Over time then, you can keep playing with what you know is the ideal, and gradually find a way to do it that way. There are qi and physical benefits to that ideal, so you’ll want to find your way there eventually.

    The one foot down and then the other one up is what Bruce often calls a “fudge”. You do an approximation until you can to the ideal in a relaxed, comfortable way.

     

     

    #133913

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Bill.

    Thanks so much for your reply. Now I can put this one to rest and there will be one less thing to obsess about!

    Have a good day.

    #133914

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Jeffrey,

    Trust you saw Bill’s reply.

    With regard to your question about feet in relation to hands. I took notice of it and I find I start shifting the weight over to my other leg and my unweighted foot begins its descent as soon as the upper hand starts to turn over and begin its descent. And all this happens at the same time as my lower hand swings around to face down the inside of the weighted leg.

    Another useful way Bill explained it is to imagine you have a string attached to the lower hand which is also attached to the weighted foot, and the moment the hand begins to rise it pulls the heel up with it, so hand and heel are rising simultaneously.

    Of course, this puts the focus on the rising hand when Bruce Frantzis and Bill emphasis that the real focus should be on the downward hand to send chi down into the earth, after which it rises automatically. However, it is a good way to feel the rhythm of the movement, which I think is the most important aspect of the whole thing, as that brings with it the relaxation.

    Hope that all helps.

    #133915

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi, David and Bill. Thank you both for the feedback. There’s so much in each move to work on, and each little hint and tip helps. I can relate to the calf clenching issue, so I particularly appreciate you addressing it.

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