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Included in the Bagua Mastery Program are discounts for 2 events offered in 2011. Both cover topics that are well past the beginner stage. Are there any plans to hold some events, either taught by Bruce or one of his senior instructors, which would be of direct relevance to those of us at the early stages of Bagua study?
Hi Joe,
Glad you are doing the Ba Gua program, some very good lessons in there. It will give you something solid to build on.
Many of BKF’s instructors teach and would be happy to pass on what they know about Ba Gua.
However, if you get a chance to train with Bruce, I’d say go for it, no matter if you feel it’s too advanced or not.
Whatever you learn at the event that feels too advanced, forget it and file it away for later use. Your mind will recall it when you need it later. But he always has plenty for beginners no matter what the course is, so you will have a lot to work on.
It would be ideal to learn everything in the perfect order.
But in this seminar format that isn’t possible. So you’ve got to take what you can get when you can get it. Beg Borrow Or Steal is my philosophy.
When it comes to internal martial arts you’ve got to grab anything you can whenever it comes by, second chances are extremely rare and we don’t have the luxury of weekly classes with the teacher.
Good luck and keep up the good work!
Jess O
Hi Jess:
Thanks for your comments. Having studied another style of Tai chi for 15 years, I do agree with the general thrust of your opinions.The event in question, wind palm, is not introduced until the final modules of the Bagua Mastery Program. I have only been introduced to such concepts as twisting and straight line stepping. Given my daily practice routine, I will be quite satisfied to make some progress on these things by March. Then I will need to have some feedback and correction from a qualified instructor before moving on to circle walking.
So, for me, the question remains as to the appropriateness of this event for someone at my stage of the game. If possible, I would like to get the opinion(s) of someone at the instructor level who has dealt with similar situations in the past.
Joe
Hi Joe,
I hear ya, and I agree that it’s not ideal to jump from the beginning to more advanced quickly. For sure, getting feedback in person is an important and needed part of the process of training.
I’ve been doing Ba Gua for a while, and I still am working on linear walking and twisting the legs. Both have a lot to teach and never truly get finished. You just add things to the training over time, but no one ever gets the leg twisting perfect. It’s so subtle that only long practice will achieve much result. That said, only a little bit is needed to cause some very cool effects.
To make a Tai Chi analogy, if someone was just learning Grasp Sparrow’s Tail, would it be wise for them to go learn say, the two person San Shou form? Well, if they then dropped the regular form and just did San Shou, I’d say it was a bad idea. However, if they used the San Shou training to help widen their view of what Tai Chi is all about, and then filed it away for future reference, they could eventually pull it back off the shelf and put it to good use, particularly if they videoed themselves doing it.
Again, if you had a teacher teaching every night in his backyard, you wouldn’t go this route. But in our case, the teacher is hard to get time with, so you can only hope to seize each piece of the system when it presents itself.
Of course money and time are also an issue, so it’s always going to be a challenge to get quality training.
Hope you keep up the work on the Ba Gua Program and get a lot out of it! There’s a lot of good stuff in there.
Jess O
Hi Joe,
Just wanted to chime in with a few thoughts as someone who has attended many of Bruce’s trainings since 2001. In the past, I tried to only attend the most applicable trainings for what I was studying. Over time, I found that many of the most valuable lessons that I was taking away from the events had nothing at all (at least on a superficial layer) to do with the “course description”. It’s like going out to a dinner prepared by a world renowned, master chef….you may be in the mood for fish, but you’re not going for fish, you’re going for an experience of cuisine that only a master of flavor can provide. He’ll give you beef or veggies, and you’ll forget that fish even exists for the moment because the chef knew how to prepare a meal that you didn’t even have the possibility for in your palette. To the chef, beef, fish, veggies, they’re all just tools…it’s the flavor that’s important.
Eventually, you go back and get your fish. It’s awesome, but not really any better than the other meal. Your palette’s expanded, you taste the chef’s signature approach to cooking in both, and now you have a better idea of how fish fits into the realm of “food”. You realize that you actually just like to eat really good food.
Don’t want to beat an analogy to death, and before I take any more time turning a taoist master into Wolfgang freakin’ Puck, let me make a second, and possibly more important point. It’s not all about Bruce. Are you enjoying the forum? Hopefully, this newly formed online community will begin to reflect the breadth and depth of the real, live Energy Arts student body. When you go to an event on Ba Gua (and I mean most any event, because the Ba Gua boys and girls turn out to these things with out fail), by virtue of the people attending you’ll have access to loads of experienced practitioners and instructors to ask all those questions that have been bugging you in your personal practice. Some of my best insights at the trainings have come through these informal training opportunities.Q’s about straight line walking? Hop in line with 10 other circle junkies practicing it over lunch. Want to understand the difference between push hands and rou shou? I defy you to escape Jess’ (the guy you’ve been talking to) voracious appetite for new partners.
Don’t get me wrong, Bruce is incomparable and incredible as a teacher….which is why there are so many people in the community who are also exceedingly valuable resources. Jess is one of those guys, by the way. He’s a certified instructor and one of the most active Ba Gua guys in the system. Plus, he actually practices tons on what he’s learned and will drag you headlong (seriously…sometimes head first) into those practices!
Glad you’re studying Ba Gua with us, Joe. Hope to meet you in person soon.
Paul
Hi Paul and Jess:
Paul, this is just the kind of feedback a guy trying to lose a few pounds needs. Seriously, I take your advice to mean it may be a good idea to attend even such an advanced workshop as the one in question.
I did not know Jess was a certified instructor since I was assuming that all such individuals would be identified by group membership. I hope you both realize that should I be able to attend this event or some other one in future, you have just volunteered to give me some help on the basics.
Until then, I will continue to practice and maybe add more fish to my diet.
Joe
Joe, no doubt bro, hit me up anytime! As Paul said, I’m always available during lunch at events… hahaha…
Paul, great post as always, your communications are always reasonable and spot on. I too have found that no matter what the event, we end up working on exactly the components that I needed, sometimes without knowing it. No matter what the topic, the 16 nei gung elements are always the main focus, it’s just a question of context. Dissolving can be used in meditation, martial arts and in healing, so no matter what the specific course is, you can always apply the material across the board.
For example, when I first did Chi Gung Tui Na with Bruce, I was in over my head. The first day was the most difficult training I’d ever done, and by the end I felt totally lost. Yet years later lessons from that event continue to echo for me. It was hard in the short run, but in the long run it gave me perspectives and hints that I have been able to continue to use and dig into.
One of my pet peeves is that many of my friends and classmates feel that they “aren’t ready yet” for events that Bruce teaches. Yet, if people don’t come, he won’t teach. So it’s a bit of a catch-22. In terms of Ba Gua, we need people to make it happen now, ready or not, because future availability is very hard to predict…
Take care you guys and let’s keep up the conversation!
Jess O
@Paul – I keep looking for a “like” button, but there is none! Anyway, I just wanted to add my two cents on the subject. I used to be pretty concientious about staying away from subjects that were over my head. I attended one summer course that was way beyond me, and struggled through it the best I could. I really wasn’t sure if I had gotten anything out of it or not. Several years later, at another retreat, some of the same material popped up again. This time, surprisingly, it felt familiar, even though I had not really been practicing that particular material in the time in between. I seriously felt it was not just the extra years of practice, but that a foundation had been laid for me the first time, without my even knowing it. So at this point I am not afraid to jump into a course that seems too advanced, as I feel like I am creating a strong foundation on which to build on the next time.
And Paul and Jess are right – you will be hard put to find a more helpful and enthusiastic group of practitioners, and all around good eggs, as the Energy Arts crew. Good luck with your practice!
Hi Joe,
I am teaching an appropriate ba gua course for beginners in June 2011 in California and Darmnstrat, Germany . I normally splits the class between beginning and more advanced material. Everything is a circle so if you want to learn you can start at any point on the circle.
Stay good,
Bruce
Ba Gua with BK Frantzis in Berkeley is March 2011.
Ba Gua with BK Frantzis in Germany is in July 2011.Both are well worth checking out if you like Ba Gua!!
Jess O
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