Excitement and Fitness bad?

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  • #128295

    Anonymous
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    As some of you may have read in an earlier post, I’m a newbit and just getting into this stuff, but I’m very confused about somet hings.

    First of all — it appears from reading many of Bruce’s books that he is against excitement of any kind and that actually doesn’t sound healthy to me. I get wanting to remain calm in the face of negative stress, but what about getting excited about falling in love (with the accompanying butterflies in the stomach)? What about the adreniline rush of going white water rafting? These things are bad? It seems like he wants to suck the joy out of life in an effort to be “healthy” and “balanced”.

    And in reading his book, “The Chi Revolution”, he remarks that a six-pack of abs is actualy bad for you in that it causes compression of your internal organs. Really? Then how does he propose to teach professional athletes who need that extreme abdominal strength to perform? I personally don’t need to perform at that level of physicality, but I do want to look “fit” and have “pretty” muscles. If this goes against Bruce’s teachings, then I should probably just stop here since it will be a waste of my time.

    #131162

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Miss Thang,

    I’ve trained with Bruce for a while and I hear what you are saying.

    Overall Taoism is about balance. Feelings of sadness, happiness, pain, joy, giddiness, thrills, chills etc are all part of life and to be treasured and fully experienced.

    However, once the experience is over, you must let it go. If you hold onto joy, or grief, you will be making something live past it’s due date, and it will begin to rot.

    Problems come when we cling to a good feeling or try to stomp on and submerge a bad feeling.

    Every feeling in life is to be honored and treasured, then let go of when it’s time is done. Just like life itself, if you try too hard to cling on and grip onto life, it will pass you by.

    In terms of musculature, Bruce’s students come in literally all different shapes and sizes. He himself has been both skinny, fat, weak and very very strong at different times in his life.

    His point on the 6 pack thing is that if you habitually crunch and crush your muscles, blood flow, lymph flow and nutrient flow are all reduced in that area. If you unconsciously keep your muscles flexed, you will be blocking the fluid flow that your body needs to heal itself.

    Taoism is about being natural, and being able to relax and enjoy what life brings. He is trying to caution against habitual tension and flexing in an unconscious way.

    Working on your body and making it strong and healthy is a good thing. A six pack is great, just don’t keep your body all scrunched up, and you’ll be fine. Being fat is OK too, just stay active and make sure your body gets a full workout every day.

    Anyways that’s my take on it! Bruce has been known to say a lot of controversial things, and part of that is sparking questions and debates like you are doing, it’s worth discussing.

    Jess O

    #131163

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Jess — Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

    I guess I just defeated before I’ve even begun — the basic standing exercise that’s at the beginning of both his Tai Chi and The Chi Revolution are beyond me at this point, and I’m starting to think I’ll never get them down.

    It’s not a lack of coordination — it’s the inability to unclench my stomach. I suspect the clenched stomach has a lot to do with my depression, but regardless of whether it’s the cause or the result, I can only do the deep breathing exercises sitting or lying down…when I try to breathe deeply standing up, I just can’t do it, so I feel like a failure before I’ve even begun.

    I also find it frustrating when people say Taosim is about being “natural” — so does that mean no makeup or nail polish? I get wanting to feel “natural” in your body, but I don’t want to be sentenced to being some granola chick in order to heal myself — frankly, I’d rather just die if it means I can’t ever feel pretty again because I have to look like that. It’s very easy for a man to say it’s all about being “natural” — you’re not expected to spend 30 minutes fixing your hair or get facials or wear makeup.

    #131164

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Miss Thang,

    I think you raise important issues. For me, naturalness is defined by a freedom from unnecessary constraints. For example, there is nothing wrong with enjoying being pretty but if your desire to be pretty comes from the weight of finding a partner who you think will bring you happiness (from OUTSIDE yourself) then you will experience tension and a lack of “naturalness”. Society, parents, schooling, etc. all fill our hearts and minds with ideas of how we “should” be and many of these “shoulds” are quite unhealthy. This applies also to our society’s notion of “fitness”. If I were a professional football player earning $10 million a year, I would gladly eat a grocery store PER DAY and lift weights to obtain huge muscles because this is what is necessary for this particular profession. But in no way should this eating and exercise regimen be considered a good model for a healthy and fit lifestyle.

    Please consider the possibility that unconsciously absorbing societal values, many of which make no sense whatsoever, can lead to stress and tension which can lead to unhappiness.

    Also, with respect to the Chi workout, don’t forget the 70% rule and don’t get down on yourself. Start with what you can do and modify accordingly. Be patient and gentle. I know from experience that patience and gentleness is difficult when depressed but take some deep belly breaths and try. You will be FINE.

    mark

    #131165

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Mark — Again, you’re speaking from a man’s perspective. Men in our society tend to be valued for their earning ability and women for their looks — if I were to tell you that in order to be healthy by Taoist standards, you’d have to ensure you made no more than $30,000/yr — would you be willing to embrace that? That’s basically what you’re telling a woman to do when you tell her not to worry about appearing attractive to the outside world — frankly, that’s completely ridiculous and unrealistic.

    I’m not trying to attack you, but I just think you have no idea what it’s like to be a woman and just telling someone “not to worry about” their appearance is like telling a depressed person to just “cheer up” — pointless and won’t work.

    #131166

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Miss Thang

    Your post brings back many unpleasant memories of my own long struggle with issues relating to depression. I recognize so many of the patterns and attitudes common to those of us who are or were afflicted with this condition. I can only say that it is possible to overcome this situation even if, as in my case, it takes until you enter your senior years. If kind and supportive words from others were enough, we would all have left our issues behind long ago. The reality is that we have to do the healing work ourselves no matter how long it takes.

    I would suggest you carefully reread your post. It reveals a lot of your attitudes to life. In only 3 short paragraphs, I counted over 10 instances of negativity toward yourself. These include: “I just defeated before I’ve even begun”;”I’m starting to think Ill never get them down”;”it’s the inability..”; “I just can’t do it, so I feel like a failure before I’ve even begun”; “I find it frustrating…”;”..I don’t want to be sentenced…”;”I’d rather just die…”;..I can’t ever feel pretty again…”

    You also turn your feelings towards others, e.g.,”some granola chick” and “It’s very easy for a man…”

    Of course, you may argue that I am taking some of these words out of context and that you did not really mean to give them such weight or importance; however, I can
    guarantee you that the words you choose to use reveal the underlying message of the recording you play repeatedly in your own mind each and every hour of the day.

    Unless I have missed something about Bruce’s programs, there is no external requirement to come up to a definite standard of performance by any deadline. It is only you who have created this environment of expectations and have internalized it into something real. In other words, you have created a situation where you are certain to fail your own test. Anything positive you may accomplish along the way will be cast aside as unimportant because it does not fit with your strongly held belief that you are somehow a failure and just not good enough.

    Whether or not Bruce’s programs work for you is besides the point. What is important is whether or not you will finally give yourself a chance to like and even love yourself. Only then will good feelings follow and outweigh those bad times we must all face in life.

    As one who has been there, may I respectfully suggest a simple exercise. Take your post and rewrite it substituting positive words and attitudes even if you don’t genuinely feel that way. When you have finished, imagine two different people wrote the post. Ask yourself which one you would rather be and continue to phrase your future communications, written and oral, in this manner. Eventually, it will become the real you.

    To happier days!

    #131167

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi MIss Thang,

    Perhaps you are closer than you think. Most of us never even notice that we are clenching muscles unconsciously. Just by noticing that you’ve begun the process of going “inside” your body. And once you get inside there’s a whole world to explore.

    Taoism speaks of naturalness more in terms of what’s YOUR specific nature. If it’s your nature to be kinda girly, then more power to you! Each of us has a unique nature to express, and we should all express ourselves in the ways that feel best.

    The unconscious tension thing is a long term process of letting go of our conditioning and being who we are meant to be. Not by adding, but subtracting that which makes us less happy.

    For the women I know their daily beauty routine is a pleasure and a needed part of life that gives them a certain personal power. This is a good thing.

    For others they feel society if making them do it or whatever, so in that case being natural is skipping that stuff.

    Just as for men, some feel most comfortable working 16 hours a day climbing the corporate ladder, whereas others find relaxing by the campfire the best place to be.

    Taoism accepts and encourages all of these ways, as long as you are embracing your truest self, not what others expect or demand of you.

    The genius of Bruce’s system is to keep the focus on feeling your self on the inside, of actually experiencing your inner life that most of us ignore. Just by standing a few minutes a day and grappling with that challenge, we learn lesson after lesson about what it means to be human, and what we need to do to be ourselves more fully.

    Good luck on your journey, mine has been filled with frustrations and with realizations, I’m sure yours is much the same!

    Jess O

    #131168

    Anonymous
    Guest

    I can’t really add much to the excellent responses that have already been made. It is about equanimity, not negating feelings. Perhaps in addition to meditation you should try one of the plethora of Taoist movement arts. Strength training and the internal arts are not anathema. You can have strong muscles and beauty and do tai chi. You just don’t want to hold tension in your muscles when practicing. Even when releasing fajing, or power, there is no tension. Everyone is at a different stage on their path, and for me, if I’m not ready for a practice, I can’t force it.

    #131169

    Anonymous
    Guest

    I’ve heard Bruce mention that Taoist meditation is about feeling what’s inside you at full intensity–whether it’s anger, sadness, joy, or something other. Don’t try to shut it off, but let it go to its natural completion. Being calm is not about being numb. It just means not getting caught up in the images and emotional charges inside the mind and body.

    The exercises that he teaches focus primarily on strengthening and conditioning the ligaments and tendons, rather than the muscles. If you look at the “animal kingdom”, many animals are quite strong without having big, bulky muscles. For example, domestic cats have very strong legs that allow them to quickly spring and pounce on their prey, but there’s not alot of bulk in their legs.

    #131170

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hello Miss Thang, nice to hear some sceptical posts for a change! But that’s good…

    I know what you mean about the whole ‘six-pack’ connundrum. I think you are getting confused, however. You may think of the possibilities: extreme six pack abs and athletic abilities, reasonably fit and toned (or pretty), down to flabby and untoned, which you may think chi gung advocates. But that is not true. Do you have any babies? I have a 7 month old, and if you want to see breathing mechanism perfection, you should observe a baby.

    If you doubt this, then try the following experiment, and this could apply equally to any top athlete you could imagine. Try going to a quiet place and then shouting and screaming at the top of your voice for an hour non-stop. After ten minutes, you will probably get the point.

    Staying with babies for a moment, then, the next thing you observe is the sheer intensity of their emotions, and how they find their perfect expression. Their ‘Gestalt’ is whole. They certainly experience joy and excitement, no doubt about it, and also anger. If they have something to cry about, or are upset or disturbed, they will scream and shout the place down. But their emotions will find a perfect outward expression. Their ‘Gestalt’ is whole. At no point will their emotions become stifled, dammed up or internalised, and not expressed. That, unfortunately, is a condition of adults, and in some is called depression.

    Emotions, good or bad, come, find expression in action and then go, and when they go, then the baby returns to peace and calm. In adults this process has, for various reasons, become severely disturbed, with equally severe consequences. and I know as well as you the black depths of depression.

    Best wishes, and I hope you persevere – let me know how you get on….

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