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This is a thread asking for help; but I will admit its also a place for me to vent my frustration.
I am currently subscribed to many courses offered by energyarts.com, including bagua mastery, hsing i, Taoist meditation circle, energy gates, etc. I also have several books authored by Frantzis.
Seeing the cup as half empty, I think its a mistake to simultaneously work on all these materials because not only am I getting a major information overload, I also notice that many of these information overlap each other. For example, I recently learned that to completely open the kwa, which seems instrumental to doing the bagua warm up exercises, I may need to practice some of the materials in energy gates, as well as the marriage of heaven/earth technique. Its not as if the bagua material itself is already very dense; but now it seems like I need to go outside of bagua and practice other techniques first in order to aid my practice of bagua itself.
Seeing the cup as half full, I think its great that I am concurrently studying all these materials. By doing so, I see the interconnection of all these materials, and eventually will be able to see them as a holistic whole. This bird view approach will allow me to come up with a road map that will guide my practice.
But first, I need to get over my frustration. The frustration comes from the fact that there are simply so much information. But it also comes from the fact that I am greedy and want to learn everything all at once. For example, I am interested not just in bagua, but also in i chuan, and the santi portion of hsing i. If I settle for just one of the three, I might not be so frustrated like I am now. But I can’t help it but notice that there are so much overlap among the three that practicing all three at the same time may actually create “the whole is greater than the sum of its part” synergy effect.
Is anyone having a similar issue? Or is this all just in my head and I am making this wayyyyyyy too complicated?
Charlie
Hi Charlie,
brains are terrible, they want everything now! This TED talk is worth listening to for a funny take on choice – https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice – Bruce puts so much stuff out there for people, he is sharing lineage level information openly and it can be overwhelming!
I subscribe to a lot of Energy Arts programs as well but I tend not to watch them from start to finish. I’ll watch a something every now and then that seems to match what I’m working on in my practice and often a single thing that Bruce says in the video will keep my busy for a few weeks, sometimes a few months.
I think all of the things Bruce teaches are manifestations of the 16 neigong – http://www.energyarts.com/sixteen-neigong – and it doesn’t really matter what you work on (meditation seems bit different
). They all compliment each other. It’s just that some things are emphasized in some practices. You could get everything you want from BaGua or you could take time out to learn Heaven and Earth in order to really understand opening and closing and then put that into your BaGua. Is one way faster than another? No idea, but really, who cares! If you work a regular job, have a family etc. you’re looking at years of work to deeply get this stuff.You’re right about the synergistic effect of practicing the different sets but it’s worth thinking about your long term goals. Do you want to be a kick ass martial artist or be healthier or explore Taoist spiritual work or something else?
So I guess I’m saying relax, remember the 70% rule applies to your mind as well as your body
Practice the things that delight you and enjoy!Trevor
Purely for what it is worth. My teacher from China, had me practicing Sun, Chen (small frame), yang, and Wu tai chi. All at once. He also had me doing henan Hsing-i, and a taiwanese bagua. you talk about confusing. He later explained that his sifu had trained him the same way. He finally told me that one of these methods would suddenly turn on chi and that would be the one I’d use to develop chi. It turned out that it was hsing-i. I didn’t care for hsing-i but his principle seemed to hold true, t least for me.
Hi Charlie,
I totally get your frustrations, I feel the same!
I’m reminded of what Paul Cavel said in one of his interviews. When he was learning the Energy Arts, he didn’t know what the next step in learning was going to be. And he had to stick to the Energy Gates for 7 years. There was nothing else available…
We’re in a very privileged situation. We have access to so much information, but it’s much more than we can handle.
I’ve been thinking about how to approach it in an intelligent way recently.
I’m sticking to Paul’s advice and keep coming back to basics (for me it’s 5 Keys)
Enjoy your practice.
Jacek
I
Hi, absolutely agree, but after 20 years of learning movement with little understanding of the internal connection I am being challenged and appreciating the depth of taoism and the energy arts team to share fom the comfort of home without endless classes. So I look, listen and learn at the best of my ability and there is a lot of bloody hells in there.
You are not alone, breath and continue
All the best julie
Hello Charlie- be well (that cup- keeps changing as we drink from it.. luckly the well our cup, at Earts, can dip from is deep)…
Comments by the others say much as I’d say, but my thought was first on how we (as each individuals) seem to only be able to absorb so much at a time- and it seems to fit (like we are a lock, and only certain key(s) will fit, at a time)..
-especially as in “modern”time/culture it doesn’t seem there is as much ‘worrying at’ something (ie as the ole saying of a dog worrying away on a bone, trying to untie a knot- this way and that and this way and that.. digest it a bit, and return to again) -so because of that, it may depend where/how we are (as well as how we see/understand it.. as it is less direct, and more in interpretation/”understanding/thought” vs direct experience). [This may slightly relate to what James referenced, but rather than as a sampling, just that we may not be open to much that we ‘could be’]
I’ve seen some other groups writing about which author/teachers make sense, and some find the presentation of those that make what they teach: most direct (WYSIWYG- so to speak, little interpretation and struggle needed), and very clearly first-second-third.. and others (like Earts) which might need (benefits form some “struggle” bitter-flavour, between the lines and below the surface, which allows different “Paths”…
— thus if you want more info on XYZ, it is over here (as you mention, the kwa is referenced in EnergyGates- so need to go there? only if you want/need more indepth coverage of that.. vs having a lighter-more cursory coverage repeated.. likewise, KaiHe (opening/closing) is referenced and taught in many places, but the deepest foundation is in Heaven&Earth.. need to do heaven&earth to learn KaiHe? only if want to dive in..
(i think of it as a developing interrelated indexing)..
Having all this info avail (let alone compared with what other systems present), is a change, as I recall when the Taoist Meditation Books were published, to add to Egates, and the Power of Int’l Martial Arts
(that last one I’ve read some say doesn’t have much instruction, but only general info.. if you only have that, and you have interest– a lot can be found, combing and pull-out parts and implications of that bk.. over and over) just a perspective..—-
on a different angle, this does tie back (as you referenced yourself in your original post- I think) that the question of what one is seeking (an end-goal, as well as the style/manner of how you what to work up on it) and thus evaluate how to adjust what you are doing (continually, as that evaluation and that question, develops)….
Hi Charlie,
Frustration happens.
The more you learn the less you know. There are learning stages one goes through so Be positive believe in yourself. You are germinating a seed. Take a break. Meet other artists. Go back to the basics if you are stuck. Skills other people might get quickly you may not have, but they will come. Taiji can help build foundation in hsing-yi. Hsing-Yi may help you have breakthroughs at bagua or Taiji. Study the arts independently. It takes decades.
If I may humbly suggest, practice standing until you drop. Then get up and do more.
Dissolve. Breathe long and slow. Focus you Intent. The Hing Yi lessons are great guides for this. Focus on practicing these skills and you will at the very least develop those skills, and they are key to all these styles. As far as I know all internal styles begin with standing postures, and all of them can yield results if you are willing to pay the price in time and effort. All roads lead to Rome – pick one. You are not alone.
Thanks,
Ray
Spoken like a “old school warrior”…. much respect. “OSU”
I understand your frustration completely. I have been studying TaiChi for about 45 years. I have found that when I reach a place where I feel like I am not progressing, or maybe being overwhelmed by what I am being exposed to, I go back to the basics & discover a deeper level of connected presence than ever before. I decided to persue THIS adventure in order to deepen my experience of the energy arts. The more you can work on “the most fundamental aspects”, the greater base you have to move forward with. There is so much to absorb that it is overwhelming. The simplest aspects are the foundation for everything afterwards. Having to continually go back to the very basic parts, presents the opportunities for connected progress. This is a lifetime journey. Enjoy the process & pay attention to the most basic & fundamental parts of the journey. Much Love, More Light!
). They all compliment each other. It’s just that some things are emphasized in some practices. You could get everything you want from BaGua or you could take time out to learn Heaven and Earth in order to really understand opening and closing and then put that into your BaGua. Is one way faster than another? No idea, but really, who cares! If you work a regular job, have a family etc. you’re looking at years of work to deeply get this stuff.This is an archived forum (read only). Go to our active forum where you can post and discuss in real time.