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March 31, 2018 at 6:59 pm #130066
I tried to open it, but didn’t feel any movementApril 7, 2018 at 10:37 am #136899
IMNSHO, this is the best non-question posed on the Opening and Closing forum to date. I’d also like to know how people open their elbow joints. So, that’s my non-question.April 10, 2018 at 4:07 am #136900
It is good to know that I am not the only one feeling lost. I think the best is not to try too hard, take it easy with 70% rule in mind and keep doing it every day. Be interested and be persistence.April 10, 2018 at 2:00 pm #136901
It is a case of: “if at first you don’t succeed, try, try and try again” …however, also not trying too hard..as trying hard can lead to tension…. so its that old Taoist conundrum again.
All you can do is keep showing up and seeing if the mind can enter the joint and the joint respond even in a minuscule way to the mind’s direction….In my case I don’t completely sense movement as such…but I sense something spacey & viscous / fluid in the joints, like runny honey as I open & close on a good practice day.
The nearest thing I can liken it to personally is sometimes wanting to double-void the bladder before sleeping, you can let your mind slowly work it’s way into your body and bladder and use the mind to relax and lengthen whatever is restricting opening – so eventually the body listens & opens, then it is quite easy for the mind to tell it to close. Not a perfect analogy but if you keep releasing and sensing opening with your mind…the joints…elbow, shoulder and wrists etc may well listen to you, eventually..
If someone does the partner expertise with me, I don’t have a lot of physical movement (short ligaments?)…whereas I have moved my wife’s elbow who does no QiGong, and it moves quite a lot- she is naturally stretchy!. I think we are all anatomically different, so you may not feel big physical movement, but unless I am deluding myself I feel space and fluid opening and some kind of pressure/pump action closing. Maybe focus on the partner exercises if you can find a willing accomplice.
Good luck and…like James says , a great non-question question!
NickApril 13, 2018 at 6:47 am #136902
Thank you. That’s helpful as I am also lacking a partnerApril 15, 2018 at 5:46 pm #136903
No, really, I want to know how people actually are opening their joints.
Having a partner grab your flesh and stretch the tissue so the bones separate makes perfect sense. If you asked the person doing the pulling would they say they stretched the tissue by using chi or would they just realize they are using their muscles to stretch your soft tissue?
The real issue isn’t whether someone else can pull your bones apart. The real issue is how do you do this to yourself. What’s the mechanism that makes it work?
Nick’s comparison to the learning how to relax the urethral sphincter (which is a muscle) may be accurate, but that doesn’t explain what is making the joints move.
So, how do you open your joints?April 16, 2018 at 10:19 pm #136904
I’m no anatomist. I feel Is it just that when I put my mind into the tissues that attach to either side of the joints, they can release some and extend, the ligaments may soften(?), muscles & fascia relax and that allows joints to open. Fluids/chi follow..flowing with intent into space in the joint…..However, I’m not qualified to explain the biological mechanics.(or the chi for that matter)…maybe someone else is, and can explain it in a way that is more useful.
When practicing circling hands, the small movements intensify the feeling of flow, becoming like small pumping action opening and closing.
Good luck. finding the answer.April 17, 2018 at 1:13 am #136905
If it were the 1st century, I’d accept chi as an explanation, but since it is the 21st century, I’m not buying it.
Chi doesn’t exist. That doesn’t mean there isn’t something real going on that people use the word chi to describe. Chi should be translated as I don’t know. So, how do you open the joints? Chi. Translation: I don’t know.
The other part of your explanation is about as good as anything I’ve ever heard. Still there is a sequence that Bruce has always taught: connect, lengthen, bend&stretch, and then open&close. Bruce calls this opening and closing chi gung, but I don’t think it is. I think it is bend and stretch. Bruce use open and close to mean many different things.
Connection too. Connection can be putting your mind inside the tissue, or it can be the physical connection of the tissue back to the spine. Lengthening can be lengthening in or lengthening out. I always thought this was bend&stretch. And if this is opening and closing then what is bend&stretch?
I’m confused and I still don’t understand how this works. I think I need someone to walk around with me and pull my joints apart.
Anyway, thanks for trying.April 20, 2018 at 8:04 am #136906
To further confuse this issue, I could make the argument that what is really being taught here is nothing more than lengthening. If you understand how to progress from connect to lengthening to bend&stretching to open&closing, you should understand why that’s a valid argument.
That said, did anyone pick up where Bruce mentioned the underlying mechanism this month?April 28, 2018 at 8:33 am #136907
Anyone who really understands connection, lengthening, bend&stretch, and open&close should be able to answer this question:
How do you connect to a single joint, continuously lengthen both in and out simultaneously, continuously and simultaneously bend and stretch, and continuously and simultaneously open and close all at the same time?
Hint: The answer makes neigung elements #8, #9, and #10 possible.April 30, 2018 at 5:07 am #136908
In Opening and Closings Edition Month 4 Qigong Session 12 @ 2:30, Bruce introduces a new definition of opening and closing. He even redefines lengthening as the mind lengthening. Around 6 minutes in he relates opening and closing to the breath.
So, from a simple point of view, he is introducing more advanced versions of opening and closings, but I think there is more. The opening and closings that Bruce described in the beginning was for the martial application in Hsing-I. The latter part of the video starts moving into beginner stages of meditation. I’d also suggest that he introduced this here because it helps with the detailed opening and closings of the martial form. These are really difficult to do at normal speed.
Whether it is real or imagined doesn’t matter, going outside the physical body gives you the time to perceive the opening and closings that he presented earlier in the video. If you watch his students trying to follow his opening and closings, they struggle because they don’t have ability to transition that fast. The Jedi mind trick @ 2minutes and 30 seconds in, helps you discern the process.
If nothing else, you see why I think the initial pulsing of the joints is just one, over-simplified version of opening and closing and why opening and closing may ultimately have little to do with the joints. There is a lot more to neigung #7.May 1, 2018 at 4:39 am #136909
I’m a bit behind but I feel like mine are opening. If healing is an indication, while practicing opening the Lao gung , a slight rash I had on the back of my hand (for months) healed. It feels like I am lengthening in my elbow when I touch it but I’m intending to move from the bone structure. I feel more aware of my energy then rather than my physicality.
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