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I feel my body normally. I feel hot or cold or itch, but during meditation
when I,m suppose to feel the top of my head and go downward I cant,t feel the
top of my head. In my mind I go downward, but don.t feel the different parts
of my body. I try to follow the instructions of Tao of Letting Go, but it all
starts with feeling the top of your head. Do you have any advice?
It seems people mention this at times, often in general- but your specifying it as the top of the head makes it a more useful question I think. -this may not be super-unusual, the question of whether you can feel there to a degree and not have that area ‘in your nerves’ as being accustomed to focusing and feeling there (vs skin on the back of your hand, or wrist, for ex- just we have developed that sense, thus the nerve development needed starting top of scalp)..
the very tip-top of scalp of head is a pt that links up alot, so worth the effort….
two possible pts: each session settle a bit as begin, and then feel what is there (be sure and release and stack-align your neck as much as you can, as this releases and awakens tip-top pt), and then sort of like looking off in the far-distant horizon you let the eyes adjust a bit… but then you’ve seen what you can see (or felt what you can), and then you feel down a bit…
if the first you can clearly feel is around the ‘crownline’ or eyebrows, or temples etc.. then you work with that- spend as long as you can for feel there and then… (the practice) -over time releases lower may awaken, in future practice sessions, higher up…..(but only if each practice session you don’t rush through– start feeling tip-top, but then you will feel an area.. just before that area there will be a vague-edge where you -start to feel- be sure and work that, but then continue down to the belt-line and end absorbing there..
The other you might try at times (not too often, and the above pts devel foundation for this) is little taps with your fingers, then stop and ‘look there’ these taps awaken the nerves which tingle a bit after…
The quality of these ‘taps’ is hard to describe in words- easy to see/show- a very light quick, has a light rain, almost butterfly wings qual…. not so much during the contact, but in the few minutes afterwards the very-phy mech of the nerves are triggered and then fire-residually a bit.luck
Know what you mean.
Tapping is definitely important to begin the process of actual sensation and being able to “stick” the mind to it.
I’ve come to the conclusion that this is part of what is “just there”, to paraphrase Bruce.
Almost as a means to even begin to crack the seal on the top of the head, you gotta accept the fact that this is just one of those things.
Maybe it’s a sublimation to avoid meditation, like the body saying “oh, hell no!! don’t you try to stick me with this meditation-crap!”, to put it indelicately.
Or maybe it’s more subtle and less complicated than that.
Whatever it is, I too really have a tough time being able to grab a hold of my body with my mind. Like my body is trying to tell my mind what to do, that merely serves as a distraction.
The body can be a slippery little git, but you gotta be firm and gentle.
Yeah I think so (well put…)
>> I’ve come to the conclusion that this is part of what is “just there”, to paraphrase Bruce.
Almost as a means to even begin to crack the seal on the top of the head, you gotta accept the fact that this is just one of those things. <<I often think how its funny that the most fundamental aspects, are a bit out of reach- ie the physical-sensation of the body is probably not ‘hidden’ but actually the closest-to-us, just that there is something in our “interface-programme’ that makes it a blindspot (or something -like the “elusive obvious’ that M. Feldenkrais referred to; ‘and at times the obvious is elusive’)
One thing Bruce referenced in terms of a regular practice, not only to develop in small doses, and not only to establish a rhythmic regularity..
– but also to tune-in and self-eval (do something that you know, and then you can notice smaller differences, that would be normally ignored…
sort of like learning to recognize the ‘flow of chi’ .. usually when that is noticed, people think/say- that is chi, I’ve felt that for yrs but figured that wasn’t it… (ie it was felt/known from the beginning? either way, the Recognition.. an AHA) …* this relates to the “regular practice” in terms of “Feel the phy” [just like “Relax the body (and mind)”] how ever much that phrase seems to make sense, after a while of practice, its like- ah when I started I thought I knew what that meant, but I didn’t- know I can (a bit)… next month/year? (will I look back to how I “think” I’m sensing/feeling NOW, and then how much more I will, and how I didn’t get it ‘today’)… if that makes sense
another thing I found (just part of my exper-discovery), the tendency of my awareness to not penetrate my flesh (as well as not saturate the current moment/space in depth and width, so to speak).. I came to notice a tendency to distort/divert/distract.. and then later I came to recognize that was also a reaction of ‘me’ (thus both the seeking to feel more, and the impulse to not- which the ‘feel more’ seeking is trying to expand beyond. Both those impulses arise from my subcon…. thus like I was fighting against a reflex-response- Habit that I previously established.– not sure if this last paragraph made sense (I found it wasn’t coming out clearly, but brought to mind this strange connection
^^^^
(like “relaxing” /sung -sink.. try to LetGo.. and realize it is one trying to pull open the fingers of a fist with the other hand.. the hand tightened into a fast “I” am holding closed, even while “I” (more consciously) am trying to open it, with the ‘other-hand’… (indirectly- vs let-go of that “hand” that is holding itself closed… likewise, the blockage felt, I can recognize “I” am holding it in place with a ‘different-part of mind’… and likewise, when look-feel there is a part of mind that is intending to distort that awareness, when feel how I am doing that, can work on how that impulse is arising (and comingled with new intention- thus part of the learning-devel?)==========
whether it is all one-continuum, or more like a huge “crowd” of individuals (functional-units by clustering)…
<<>>what is the ‘mind’ that is in the body? (assuming per above that the body has a different “mind” -trying to tell the main-mind ‘what to do’)… [and the body of the main-mind?]
is there a distinction between the Mind that is looking (and the mind that is deciding to practice, wanting to see more?), and the ‘mind’ of the body that is say not to…?
perhaps there is a level where those minds both arise from- and from there- informs both (otherwise, looking mind, vs ‘body’s response- is like Left-hand and “Right-hand fighting- vs the underlying- arms-shoulders linked whole… context shift).
Just to followon this, I was pointed to this article (on BBC future)- partial quote:
“The studies first asked subjects to count their heartbeats based solely on the feelings within their chest; they weren’t allowed to put their hand on their heart or actively take their pulse.
Try it for yourself, and you’ll see that this kind of “interoception” can be surprisingly difficult; around one in four people miss the mark by about 50%, suggesting they have little to no perception of the movements inside them; only a quarter get 80% accuracy. After testing their cardiac awareness, the researchers then gave the volunteers various cognitive tests.” —
“People with more bodily awareness tend have more intense reactions to emotive pictures and report being more greatly moved by them; they are also better at describing their feelings. Importantly, this sensitivity seems to extend to others’ feelings – they are better at recognising emotions in others’ faces – and they are also quicker to learn to avoid a threat, such as a small electric shock in the lab, perhaps because those more intense bodily feelings saturate their memories, making the aversion more visceral.”
Even beyond the details… the general impact of the alteration of internal-sensation (as in this article- the change in the cardiac-pulse, per the supplemental valve)… awakens more sensed feeling, and thereby changes the mind…from http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20141205-the-man-with-two-hearts
I reminded, time and time again, whether I like it or not, about what Bruce said in Relaxing into Your Being, that 95% of the time, and I’m paraphrasing again, is digestion; what we expect from meditation and the dissolving process only happens about 5% of the time.
For me, this makes meditation far more enjoyable; no expectations, no goals, just sitting back and letting it happen. Not something that is strove for but something that just happens, if only 5% of the time. I don’t know why, but this makes me feel more amicable to meditation, knowing that I’m not doing it wrong to enjoy the majority of tedium and knowing that when it happens it just happens.
I “heard that” .. brings to mind another phrase, about the Hawk circling, eye on the mouse-hole… waiting watching, not trying to “will” it out- not anything except soar/hover/circle.. and keep the awareness- and be ready.. when (if) the oppor arises..
and percolation-digestion.. the integration-reboot, so to speak
Good comments.
I just wanted to say that it took me a really long time to be able to feel a lot of this stuff. Maybe other folks will do it faster, others maybe slower, but it requires time and intent. Of course, it gets deeper all the time, but it took me a really long time to be able to really feel emotional, mental, and psychic energy. Still working on the deeper things, but emptiness is there…
Been struggling with this one for awhile, since I’ve felt my proclivity to be a drawback/cheating or just nonsense, but acting like you’re meditating is pretty damn-close to meditating, if not better than any other approach.
I’ve heard the adage about a monkey who saw Buddha meditating, imitated him and became enlightened, but I still avoided the significance with regards to the idea that if you imitate meditation, even disingenuously or mockingly, if you commit to the imitation you get all of the meditation benefits.
I would even go so arrogantly far as to say this is a superior method of meditation than many engage in, that people’s seriousness with regards to meditation can be a biblical-detriment; in a sense, being serious about meditation is a violation of the 70% rule.
In this regard, as Bruce points out about the advanced stage of meditation, you could be doing meditation 24/7 if you just didn’t take it seriously.
Now I know this can be twisted into meaning laziness or what-not, but if you act like you’re meditating and succeed how is that any different than doing all the proper rituals, postures, and protocols with the intent to meditate properly? You could say there is a gap in the acting like you’re meditating and meditating, but isn’t that just a conceptual gap rather than an actual energetic gap?
If you are committed to acting like you’re meditating, I’d guarantee, you’ll be meditating!
To me, it’s the only way to meditate, because if you’re trying you’re doing and if you’re acting you’re being. In this sense, whatever gap there is is reduced by turning the mode of trying closer to being rather than disconnecting into the realm of doing.
But, different strokes for different folks; some people’s acting is another person’s doing meditation and vice versa. It’s just semantics!
Another notional-scion I felt like sharing, with regards to “meditation is not contemplation”.
To me, being a human being means being predisposed to meditation; I think this is a way of looking at what Bruce means when he says how a physical body and a gravitational field is the ideal setting for chi-awareness.
I think/feel that a physical body is the bicycle we learn to ride, a boot-camp for meditation.
Meditation is like trying to assemble a gun blindfolded after being exposed to the semiconscious soldier-training of life.
If you try to contemplate just what in the hell you’re doing, it’s like taking off the blindfold but being stuck in a room full of all of life’s stuff, randomly and distractingly-arrayed, with no way of knowing just what task will get you outta this room.
Meditation becomes about putting on the blindfold and letting your instincts, or nature, (the military training of having a physical body) take over till you assemble that gun (meditate).
Then each time you meditate it is like being able to put the gun together faster and also, like riding a bike, you never forget how to do it, you just get rusty.
Likewise, each advancing step of meditation, after the allegorical speed of assembly is mastered, is like putting together another type of weaponry blindfolded that you thought you forgot you knew how to, mastering that assembly process to appropriate speed.
And, as it is a circular path, we always reemerge at more advanced levels putting together stuff we already did (but maybe it’s slightly modified or the relative speed is increased?, I dunno losing the thread here
Anyway, that’s my two-cents; go buy yourself something nice.
This view touches upon the “little bit less automated” aspect (as even ‘practiced’ =”second nature”…. 2nd nature, never becomes “1st nature”… running a programme)… thus assm/’dis-assm a rifle (machine-work, thus also computing-mech analogy).
But further might be how what we call thinking (self-talk thoughts) is “indirectly” experiencing (reflecting upon symbolic reflection, vs dealing with the direct exper- like in NeiGung: an intention/thought to move the chi- indirectly, vs directly moving the chi; similar to if you need think a thought/see a picture to then… move a finger, vs just moving the finger “directly”)…
to directly exper our thoughts/awareness is like seeing the shapes of moving-waves; see/feel (know) the shape of the waves (like recognizing shapes of “clouds”), sense them rising up/sinking away (like seeing a trend, or movement)… but that is activity of the “mind” water =waves…Meditation is actually first perceiving the water (not the activity of the water even, let alone not only clusters recognized =waves)…. and then later changing the current-flows and the water’s nature.
Thus to “meditate” is to change the nature-of-mind, thus work directly upon/with the “sub-stance” that is the mind… that “mind-stuff” moves in ways that express Flux, which we then represent/symbolize as “thoughts/experiences… reactions to” etc. [thus why its is said, to wake-up cannot be understood within a dream- as it is outside of dreaming (as metaphor for life, not meaning “sleep-dr”…
***
also, tricky, one can “dream”/experience anything one can experience….. thus anything that you might interpret as meaning a greater degree of waking, change … can still be part of the same -sleep-walking- still part of the manifestations of mind….[thus to exper mind dynamics that underlie thoughts- clearly not via thoughts… what view-thru? -and to sense the stuff of mind, viewing/perceiving from something else (something “deeper”?) than “mind”… ?]
else learning a new-skill pattern could be a new-habit.. a new-routine learned (which can also be as satisfying as buying something nice… look what I “discovered” while Shopping/look what I can do :>
I think I get what you are mentioning here.. and the difference between a recommended step to approach a subject (an access-pt, an entry-pt- to build fundamentals, also interest in start-continuing)… vs what one is looking-for (as if the first ex is seen as the “final-answer” cul-de-sac.. =glass ceiling, etc.)
In other words- to specifically comment upon the mention of pretending/act-as-if (imitation) – if relate back to the comments in this thread.. to become aware, to feel what is within the body, to embody the flesh – if you feel what is in your hand, vs “pretend” you are (look physically at it? blankly… vs actually ‘feel-it’)….I’d say there is a difference, also Feel your hand, and after a bit (shorter or longer time, depending upon blockages and development) but the hand is noticably changed (blood-circ, espec micro-capillary ie redness.. and even motility of the flesh- ie living pulse-flux .. the soft-tissue moves more.. [it should have more of a look as if was “in a hot-tub”..] thus concretely evaluativable
also if one is referencing the Monkey tale (which may or may not be linked to the Monkey-King.. Journey-to the West… thus perhaps the Hannuman story…. the Hindu Monkey god becoming the essential “disciple” (in modern usage follower, as well as origin in ‘discipline’ do XYZ… he does, with fully investiture and involvement (not just acting as if)…
Monkey see/Monkey do, I’d say doesn’;t just mean watch and copy (I’ve seen people watch Egates CloudHands and Swings from the distance and “copy”…. totally different from explained, shown, best if they Feel someone that has embodied it… With that grasp of what is going on—- ‘that’ is what the Monkey-does (copy meaning imitation in an informed and “embodied” sense…. Like Pro-Dancers that watch some Choreography… it is their intense training that has developed the ability to actually see what is shown & to then discover how to express that through-them.. to Manipulate themselves to “do” what was “seen”
I.e. (how oft seen a “martial arts” or “chi gung” – let alone dance- that one “shows” a move.. and students “copy” such that their “copying” looks Nothing Like what was done…. and NeiGung what occurs “under the skin” is the issue…. (and Meditation, is what is in the Energy- then “under the Energy” – in the sense Energy is polarized and separate…. taiji is that which is 4corners (linking and combining and sourcing yin and yang- yet is Not either)… to direct TaiJi is below/before polarity… what is the mind like that can? (not aware from, not ‘think’- in Yin/Yang… what is that state of “mind” like? not like the Usual?)
Thus how perceive that? one that can sense that (not so much explicitly, but can sense enough to follow-along, and then “copy”…..) that is req’d to Imitate. (thus the Heart-Mind/hsin… as liminal-threshold, beyond the con/subcon boundary… as well as “mindstream” -what is all that? not need words, unless reading… but if present- can “watch” to then imitate? -‘hear’ the transmission, and then allow your system to dis-cover how to manifest that…(thus the import of the ‘Chou I’-ching manifestations as expressions of change, which overlap and themselves change by ___
(“it’s just semantics.” -the use of words to define words ?
but I wonder, does the “hand” reference make sense how another aspect of “acting” and “doing meditation” might differ? (assuming one is actually feeling more- espec deeper, wider…)
-felt spurred to type a bit
(big worth in these issues for me- and I think back to how I’d figured it out yrs b4, when I’d read mainly the “academic” studies, that interpreted Buddhism as intell-philos/Christian theology, by the Germanic school.. per the basis of the initial German from the British scholars that re-contexted the Vedic system… this progression lead to Taoism being considered a ‘face-less’ buddhism (practice without the boddhisats)… with Zen being a different version— thus why the source US bks of the 70s seem to combo those… and yet to access what it actually is, how actually “try it a bit”… (it seemed vague, until I discovered some writings and teachings that weren’t bks about bks/blind-led by blind… some felt-exper.. ah… and then the jump in Bruce’s presentation- which revealed what had been seen before and now made more sense thus my feeling of spurred to write something in response, for whoever might read. -cheers
I’ve been experiencing emotional maturity as, what I consider, a complementary biblical passage to the one that was used in Taoist Sexual Meditation, “to enter the kingdom of heaven, be as a child of God .”
I find any brand of wisdom to be ultimately paradoxical, the effect being to think for oneself and to point in the direction of what works for you, when and under what circumstances.
Also, with Bruce’s Thunder energy, his bold assertions are really meant to shake the shingles on how we learn and on the relatives and absolutes he’s on about.
Any good teacher is often lying. Helps you think for yourself.
Im having a hard time feeling anything for finding anything helping on how I should go about meditation. Ive dived into everything I could find but I feel like all that’s left is diving into myself my own my own to understand myself my life and my purpose so if anyone could give me some advice on how to quiet my mind so that I could listen to my higher self I would really appreciate it. I leave up to the universe now and will let it guide me. Stay positive everyone.
Best wishes in your practicing and seeking…. you mention everything that you could find (not sure if you already had explored this site’s info and forum, etc…. as that is info.. )
– just in context, in Vedic Tradition I was taught that “finding a teacher” and a path that you can relate to and follow is a good measure of good-karma.. ie is something to find itself).. anyway..
-its a journey (it may take many, many years to finally click, but then you’ll look back and determine all that you experience steadily developed you to where you finally arrived.. even if it seemed you were stuck for so long.)
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anyway- in terms of actual advice for your situation, per not having personal reading on what you are going through– I’d recommend meeting up with a teacher, even if just for a single session, or a single class.. even if you have to travel a ways for a day, or weekend.. just to have that in-person (not only their direct, custom feedback, but also that your body and mind will pick up from someone that has skills that you seek- non-verbally so to speak.. so find someone that moves and exudes the type of presence, etc. that you seek to develop.. and if they seem to have it- any advice/fdbk pointers they could give would help, but even just being around, what your system can “pickup” may not come from their words…http://www.energyarts.com/instructors
luck
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