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July 14, 2017 at 6:51 pm #129867
I’ve begun to notice my chi but not what you might call in an orderly way. First of all, as i sink my chi it feels much more noticeable in some parts than others, such as my shoulders, chest and stomach area but also, my hands have begun to really buzz and heat up when i start to sink through my shoulders. The feeling is so strong that i feel as though my hands have gone and just left these sensations in their place – but this is happening before i even reach that part during the sinking process. It’s also really difficult to keep my glute muscles relaxed. I let them go and before you know it, they are tensed up again! There has been a small improvement but right now, it feels as though i spend a lot of time reminding my glutes to let go! Is this just part of learning or am i not doing something right? Any help would be so welcome because there is no one to share this with around here so i’m not sure if i’m on the right track.
Thanks for reading.
SuzanneJuly 14, 2017 at 9:35 pm #136456
Maybe you’re sinking too intensely?
Try focusing on your 70% as you practice and see if these sensations are happening when it feels like you’re going past it.
If they’re still occurring it may just mean that you’re working with blockages, since Bruce has said sensations are the signs of a blockage and when chi is flowing freely there are no sensations.
When the sensations occur, maybe practice some meditation and try dissolving the places where the sensations are happening. When they subside, try sinking again and if they reoccur, go back to dissolving.
If it’s still happening, really back off from the intensity of your sinking and see if that does anything. Maybe it’s a no pain no gain mentality creeping into your practice that tells you if you don’t feel something you must not be doing it right. Just try backing off to where it’s comfortable and practice from there.
CodyJuly 15, 2017 at 12:44 am #136457
Hi Suzanne- Cheers on your development (clearly having found something of value-in-it, this unusual-practice that people-everywhere don’t seem to be doing
– not orderly, makes some sense (hard to say, unless more info- even work with a person- to say really.. but if you’ve seen Bruce use his example, always makes me think of a fly-buzzing around and landing for a second, and then zipping off again- this way and that– closer.. away.. closer again.. land, then off.. (sometimes longer, sometimes shorter).. [ he does this with one hand touching or moving around above the other hand ] This is to rep “I got it, I lost it, I -almost- got it, I’m not sure.. ah- I think… ” etc.
The trick is to differentiate: the sense of what you are trying to do, and the results from–
the former is tricky, and continually refining-re-defining, the later is your system. -first just your body, parts, even the whole.. changing from it- settling, like warming-melting ice (see below)..
then later deeper-aspects, men-emot-a concrete sense of Energies, that are like layers of temperature in a pool of water, feel a bit deeper, ah, there is a jet, or a cool spot, etc. [ but at first, is that nerve tingles? is that just change in circulation of blood? soaking-filling warmth, or releasing the tissue around an arterty- pulses beat-waves? is that chill, or tingles, what? — first its just “what was that”.? you didn’t know it was coming, nor how to recreate..
then you can setup the conditions (and not everytime it “works” but you can prepare, in case it arises), and then you can “I’m going to…” and it happens (to one degree or another)…
— at this point often “back to the drawingboard” or at least a revised viewpt, as you see things in a different way (around the circle again.. not just once, nor even twice).. but each time, you go from dipping a toes in, to getting wet- & becoming more and more accustomed to the water (just as when you jump into a pool, or lake, Dui)… what arises? what do you exper? -aha
I’ve mentioned aspects related in other posts, which I won’t repeat here, recently about water-droplets running down the wall of a freezer… and others related to how the system reacts to a part… here- just I’ll mention two things:
First there is a sense if we do something- something happens, and if we don’t “do it” something won’t happen (ie I do, means my surface thoughts, personality level..) vs either a part reacting itself.. (does flesh in arm let-go when in a sauna or hot-tub, or “standing” that isn’t I decide to let-go.. but the flesh itself- releases? … and/or is the subcon,, and deeper levels of mind (iceberg % above to under….) -reacting, “on its own” .. or not ‘reacting’ but it acts.. (set up the conditions, we think we decided, or we are making a change.. and yet what if a current is shifting ‘sea-change’… ?
or even something from outside, some wind in the air, or of the place, or this “time”.. that we ride..?
(above, not the answer right-wrong, but if that “looking” and see what is there, while std, or else, may allow loosening to see)
Secondly, another ice metaphor.. I don’t know if you have ever dumped some ice into the sink, to “get rid of it”/melt…. at first it just sits there, and is in a pile, stacked up, lots of space inside the stack… if you turn on the water, it runs-wet on a pt (the top? top the head, and then “gravity” water sinks down the pile of ice).. it may melt there, or from that water, but often down at the bottom outer edge it may pop, or crack and shift… not from that melting, but some shift, or the “sink contact” or just the air-temperature..
(even if no water is turned on, and big solid block of ice is put out.. and it starts to melt- just from the air, and it it may suddenly pop/crack, was that a release from something acting on that “spot” or from change elsewhere..
(just as a pt in spine, or inside skull may shift, as a result of adjustment elsewhere- say under clavicle-collar.. from per-exp)
* much like untying a knot of string.. you need pull to get some “slack” looseness, before you can “Gather” that to allow shifting that to release another part..
anyway- above from the great amt of time doing, and thinking (about what I’ve done, and felt, and resulted from- as well as how to re-present it).. more than I should have likely I have kept returning to those “models” -but your concrete-exper is the real baseline.July 17, 2017 at 6:15 pm #136458
Thanks for your help here. It could be that i’m trying too hard, it’s all so different and new at this stage. I
think you may be right about working with blockages and had forgotten about Bruce saying that when chi is flowing freely, there are no sensations. The dissolving sounds like a good idea to me, not sure why but somehow it resonates, so that’s one for me to work on. I’ll also try “not trying so hard” too. It’s all a learning curve!
SuzanneJuly 17, 2017 at 6:25 pm #136459
Thanks to you also for such an in-depth reply. I can really appreciate the analogies about ice and the idea of letting my body settle with things.
We live in such a “doing” world that sometimes, to not do anything and just go with sensations is a bit of a challenge.
I’m going to read your reply again (and probably again!) because there is a lot in it that i can connect with but need to think about it some more.
Thank you for taking the time to offer help and support, which is so appreciated when i am taking a long journey without a map and not sure where i’m heading.
SuzanneJuly 18, 2017 at 12:48 am #136460
Suzanne, sounds good, and luck with doing that (what you wrote)
(I did write this, and do write other post-comments, from multiple perspectives- so that they should give a more complete-answer… as Bruce has hinted at in his teaching), never sure how well, or who might come back to them- after much practice ‘discover’ more to see(?)
– is the flip-side to speaking to many-poss readers, who know what exper-lvl.. so likewise, the same reader, as their exper develops? ie after a year (or even a month.. (sometimes, as you may have found- an AHA after a week may change things.) can be like being a different person.. —who knows..
The one ‘challenge’ is the either-or “Catastrophic thinking” … as you mention in:
The options seems to be do (in the explicit, talk-to-self method), or the only-other-option ? is not-do anything.. perhaps there are many gradations… which?
(perhaps not doing at all… but it is like sitting in a chair, even then you shift your position and balance every now and then.. but not a “Big Deal”.. just barely notice and change… )
how about the increase/diminish of depth of breath.. -espec in sleep- that happens.. but automatic? -rather it is part of system (in surgical-anesthesia/coma… no response, so if “part of you” responds, is that part of you? -or is that something else?
— cognitive psych sees “consciously noticing something” to be the end result of actions bubbling up from the subcon.. some don’t rise above the surface, and some just ripple it.. – thus our noticing (and explicit talk-thought is a whole layer “after” that..) , so we are like the end result.. -vs- the way pop-culture likes to think, conscious mind is “real” and the basis..
(subcon activity seems to be something else, else a stranger- in our mind, or something the conscious mind does… -conscious thoughts produce the subcon? -well, that is the way it is spoken about.. rather than what I notice, how I react.. -how much of that is the resulting inter-meshing of different programs being run.. (choose to act?)
just more confusion.. as the prior probably had plenty.. but just this aspect of — I’m going to do it, or else it just happens (as if those are the only two– let alone things aren’t so simple…
the apparent tangent in last paragraph.. “I’m going to make it happen” .. but if my “choices” of what to “intend” are just the end-result of programs and actions, like bubbles, begun in the subcon that bubble up.. is that “I” do? (not saying it isn’t.. exactly- again, not only 1-or-the other.. )
cheersNovember 10, 2017 at 8:34 pm #136461
Hello Suzanne, as I just posted a couple of responses- and saw this msg from a bit back (time has slipped-by since july:) .. here being Nov, I wondered what you might have found-discovered ? – on the long journey (without a map), making your trail-perhaps…November 12, 2017 at 5:56 am #136462
is the term Taoists used to cultivate Qi
over 2,000 years ago.
The more recent modern term is Qigong; it begun to be used in the 1950s
Balance is the purpose of Daoyin/Qigong.
“The main goal of Tao yin is to create balance between internal and external energies” wikipedia
Sensations in the hands, arms, shoulders, glutes are extrrnal energies.
And I suppose that these external sensations are indicators of blockages.
Dissolving external blockages is part of a healthy balance.
Internally, the purpose if yin and yang internal energies.
Qigong, tai chi and bagua work to balance internal energies.
These are not physical sensations.
The “Dao” of Daoyin works yin energy—
It has been translated as “guiding.”
It is physical.
So you focus on yin energy
(the small black dot in the tai chi icon)
When you do focus on the yin black dot, the yang energy is guided.
Exhale and yang energy grows,
yang Qi is guided to flow away from the center of your dantien out to your fingers and toes.
One analogy is that a pilot tugboat guides the large sea tanker out of the harbor
The “yin” of Daoyin works yang energy.
It has been translated as “leading” (I like the term “luring”)
It is The main goal of Tao yin is to create balance between internal and external energies mental.
So you focus on yang energy
(the small white dot in the tai chi icon)
When you do focus on the yang white dot, the yin energy is lured.
Inhale and yin energy grows,
yin Qi is lured to flow in to the center of your dantien.
One analogy is that the pilot boat leads (lures) the big ocean tanker in to the harbor.
But remember that the purpose of Daoyin/Qigong practice is to achieve balance—both internally and externally.
With practice the balance will improve your health.
Weird sensations will be dissolved and you can move smoothly wothoit gaps and tensions.
This is just my view—not necessarily held by most masters and not explicitly taught by Bruce.
I’m just trying to answer the question:
What is an internal energy art?
Internal is not an external practice,
like when your glutes get tired they cramp or have spasms.
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