Week 2 practice

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  • #130678

    Anonymous
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    Hi Everyone,
    I thought I’d add a tid-bit about counting. Ultimately, it may be inconsequential, but if it helps someone – great. :)
    I’ve been working on this stuff for about 15 yrs… started out like much of you describe. I count to 27, 54, 72, 81, and 108 breaths usually, sometimes 3 sets of 108 (usually time dependent). I use to count on fingers – 10 breaths and then one finger released. Eventually I let go of the extra external stuff and sooner or later you may too.
    What counting and breathing do is give the “monkey mind” something to settle down to. Yes, while you count and breath (in the early phase) the thoughts and all the random neurosis are out of control. This doesn’t actually ever stop (at least not yet for me), you just become more efficient at letting go and “clearing the mechanism”. Focusing on counting, and the breath, and the bodies stored tensions helps to funnel the mind and filter out the stuff. Anyway…
    What I’m getting at is, sooner or later the counting of the breath becomes automatic. I count into the breath. On the inhale, my mind registers “aaaannnndddd” and on the exhale it registers “ooonnneee” “aaaannnddd” “ttttwwwwoooo” on the next inhale – exhale, etc. So the breath and the count become one. And now, the issue of counting is so automatic, it only seems to occupy 2-5% of my attention, just sort of ticking away in the background while I work on following the breath as it moves through the body and work on the other issues.
    One idea in meditating is to let go of all the unnecessary things. For as long as you need something to help you accomplish your task, use it. And when you no longer need it – let it go. This goes for all the extra tools we think we need to meditate. After 10, you run out of fingers. After 20 you run out of toes. 108 beads? – what if you lose your beads? What if your clock runs out of batteries?
    How can you get into yourself if you still worry about the outside stuff? The mind trapping the mind…
    Anyway… these are just some ideas that I hope can benefit your progress.
    Steve ;)

    #130679

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi EasternWays,

    After getting to the point that counting the breath has become automatic, do you find that you cannot let the counting go and allow your body to breathe without the requirement of counting? I have spent about four years focusing on my breath constantly throughout my day, originally in order to become more present and let go of my monkey mind. After having done this for some time, I now find it hard to just allow my body to breathe and let my mind relax and count, as opposed to my mind being involved in controlling the length and depth of the breath. Have you found that you eventually reach a point where you can release the counting and just breathe, or do you find that there is a disconnect between the mind and the breath when you stop counting throughout the inhale and exhale?

    #130680

    Anonymous
    Guest

    HI Joseph,
    In the phase 1 part, where we ‘take stock’, I found the counting to just be there automatically ticking away. I wanted to quiet that so I could really ‘take stock’ of ‘what is’ at this point in my progress.. In order to do this, I had to let go of the counting and it wasn’t hard at all. Maybe it’s from practicing the ‘Letting go” process so much with dissolving practices that made it so easy to let go of counting too. In letting go of the counting, I found that I was able to go deeper into my own stuff (a little scary actually). So, no disconnect, but I think/feel a better-connect. :)
    It sounds like you put your mind too much into the breathing process and the physical act of breathing. A way of bringing yourself present to the ‘here and now’ is to focus on the task at hand. When neophytes were working on this issue, focusing on the specific task or event in there day to day life was the way to bring themselves present. They would pound the rice or fold the clothes or skin the chicken and put there whole attention into that act as if to become one with the event. I think ultimately, that’s what we hope to accomplish with meditation and bring that same attentiveness to life and living. Become one with the breath not necessarily the act of breathing – although they are one and the same, they are kind of different. I feel the breath move through my body from my core to my feet to my hand – I literally feel this occur like a pulsation. I do feel the breathing process BUT through the breath not the process. This has taken time, but I think it’s only because of following the breath in the ways that Bruce has described in all the breathing practices/exercises that I’ve followed.
    Have fun,
    Steve

    #130681

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Eastern Ways, thanks for your tips on counting the breaths and the oneness of counting and breathing. I am not a fan of counting so in my meditative practices I quickly dropped that bit. I don’t find it particularly challenging to count in my head but in the new month lesson, Bruce says that is better to use the fingers than to count out loud in the head… well, I find it extremely challenging, literally it seems like a lot of distraction to move the fingers and keep the rest closed on a fist while focusing on, say, the head. I think I’d need a couple of sessions to regulate the finger counting or stick to my language-counting, although it’s not ideal.

    #130682

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Hi Steve,

    breathing as a method to enter meditation has much more content as one should think and you describe different levels you entered with it.

    The mind has to be accustomed be present in this moment at best with any distraction. This is not possible in the beginning so counting or stretching the ten fingers employs here in first instance the mind for not going elsewhere. You remark distraction by losing the counting process having begin again with the first count with a further try as Bruce instructs us.

    So breathing is here the rescuing tool perhaps for ever when deeper levels of concentration cannot be entered. But a steady practice will create a habit and firm basis where counting gets automatic needing less and less attention.

    You seem having entered a level where “letting go” of the counting is possible. This interests me. Is it only a habit of being aware of the breath and such action in good and deep belly or full breathing till to the clavicles or more a better presence in the moment? Naturally it is in last respect indescribable and “letting go” also.

    The gap between in and outbreath may become a graspable moment like the moment when the tao fish symbol turns from the black of yin to the white of yang, from the emptiness of inbreath to the fullness of outbreath. This balancing point “between” this two should be meant by gap as to be seen in the tao symbol . Like the gap between thoughts as a higher endeavour in meditation I do not know.

    Axel

    #130683

    Anonymous
    Guest

    adriantineo – I think you and I are in the same boat as far as the counting (see my slightly distressed rant under “week 3 and 4 challenges”) I have never really used the counting method in my meditations either, so I’m trying to get used to it. I have stuck with the finger method this week, and I’m slowly getting used to it, so I’m glad I stuck with it. Good luck!

    #130684

    Anonymous
    Guest

    hehehe yes, I read that and felt identified ;=)

    For a person that does a lot of intellectual work like me, it just comes natural that “talking in my head” is easier than “counting with the fingers”. I think though that it is worth to spend some time to make this shift, and that’s where I am at now.

    #130685

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Who is breathing? and who is it that is concerned about the breath…as one reads the theses posts, the many “I” contributing – are they same with a different mask?…let the breath come and go, be not overly concerned for that is a snare of the ego, watch the action, see the mind, be the watcher, sink into the spaces, allow the count, it is only an aid to focus and not a goal…see the self by watching everything that comes up and wash away as all things not real come and go…that awareness is possible through out the day, with vigilance, then when does meditation begin and end?

    #130686

    Anonymous
    Guest

    ………..thanks Grady, wow!

    perhaps the posts show an emerging community of people sharing thoughts about experience – not sure the Taoists get too hung up on ego issues (Bruce on occasionally discusses the concept) and maybe ultimate reality is something else – but hey it’s fun to talk anyway!

    #130687

    Anonymous
    Guest

    Well again another possible approach if a certain concentration already is ready for being used. So attention can be consciently be esplit without being distracted.

    “Letting being counted” makes countinbg a side and not a main business for overcoming the inner and outer noise so necessary in the beginning. The noise of counting eracidates to a certain way the other noises creating a more dense and stiff concentration which does not lower so much the tension as this way.

    The gap within the breath and thinking may get observable when the origin of breath and life force delivers a new beginning after dying outwardly or renewing inwardly this force within you making the question of an “I” also secondary.

    Following crazy Osho counting the breath or prana or chi was the way of enlightenment for the Buddha by entering ultimate reality. One of the 112 methods of vijana bhairava of shivaistist tantrism.

    So do not downplay the counting still more detaillled in yoga and this tantrism by locations before and behind the nose for energy and channel work in advanced methods where outbreath ends before the nose and begins behind it.

    Axel

    #130688

    Anonymous
    Guest

    I just started the actual meditation today and combined week one and two.the counting was easier to hold while sitting,10 minutes taking stock and 10 counting,I drifted more standing for ten minutes in a neigong position ,something i’ll have to work on.next set up ajournal mentioned in the other post

    #130689

    Anonymous
    Guest

    I was just curious ,does it matter if i stand for ten minutes first then sit for twenty also can i sit for twenty in the morning and then stand for ten at night?

    #130690

    Anonymous
    Guest

    I would assume that it’s fine to adjust standing/sitting times and order to what is comfortable for you. I would recommend doing what seems best for your practice, as long as you are in the general parameters of the instructions.

    #130691

    Anonymous
    Guest

    I stopped at the resevoir on the way to work and did the sitting meditation for twenty minutes.it was great to be outside,i can’t wait for winter to end and enjoy practice outdoors{i was in my car}.tonight about an hour after dinner i did ten minutes standing meditation.i think i am getting much better at holding the concentration on the breathes.the biggest obstacle i see in the futere is time to practice and the outside world constantly trying to invade my mind,but am enjoying the look inside

    #130692

    James Murray
    Member

    Hi Steve,
    I think I’m with you on some of your discussion. I have done some breathing before, so counting is really secondary and occurs when I have this intent. Otherwise, I’m focussed on the breathing process and noticing what happens when I inhale and exhale while somewhat attempting to make the breathing process similar each time. I also attempt to make the process smooth, which it often is not, but progress is being made.
    I hope to integrate this into my practice/teaching of tai chi and baqua to allow more natural movement without force.
    Bob

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