Breathing and Standing

[Anonymous]

I recently joined the standing programme. My questions relate to breathing during standing practice. In the past I used “Opening Energy Gates” as a solo practitioner over a number of years but am now returning to standing meditation after 12-18 months falling away. I used to do Tai Ji, qigong but over the years standing forms of meditation/qigong have appealed to me more and more (also opposed to sitting too, which I am less easy with). In this programme I am happy to follow both beginner to rebuild foundation, and take something form intermediate videos, as it is not completely out of my reach.

When practicing, I automatically tend to breath into belly, sides and back on inhale while also for example attempting to pay attention to the crown (or anywhere else) but I am aware of energy rising on the inhale (particularly up the spine), and using my exhale to release and ‘sense’ sinking internally which seems to go on most strongly in belly/diagphram/pelvis simultaneously with other areas I am focusing on, which are less clear. I feel some awkwardness in a sense of dual focus (Belly Breathing Points of awareness) that maybe dissipates my sensitivity to staying with what is happening in particular areas (e.g.: crown, throat & all the way down). Maybe that is what is described as “any feeling you don’t understand” in awareness of blockages.

Should I let go of any attention to belly breathing?
Is syncing inhale with ‘focusing attention/awareness’ and exhale with ‘sinking (and eventually dissolving) too literal an understanding?. it certainly feels that sinking internally with exhale is real rather than visualised.

Advice appreciated.

Nick

Afterthought: Noted during a practicing session after posting this, that the resistance /conflict I experience with belly breathing is most present when bringing awareness to anywhere above the shoulders, ie.: neck-head, brain, crown etc….not surprising maybe! Anywhere below the neck I seem to be able to sync and stay with attention a little more smoothly.

[Anonymous]

Sir,

I don’t think that you need to let go of any attention to belly breathing.

The exploration of breathing is fundamental to all practices.

Breathing, like all aspects of the energy arts, is a tool.
Any “tool” can be used for various purposes.

One of the benefits of the energy arts is in training to use several “tools” at the same time.
So getting comfortable with a “dual focus” is part of the holistic effort–even “non-effort.”

Nevertheless, always trying to sync breathing with any other function can be counter-productive. I do think your process is good in that you are exploring your feelings and awareness during your practice.

I don’t always agree with everything Bruce says about breathing–even though his knowledge if far deeper than mine.

In breathing I focus on the diaphragm.
I look to the science of anatomy and physiology to understand the action of the diaphragm-although scientists have not always agreed on how it functions.
The unabridged version of “Grey’s Anatomy” is a good place to start.

The diaphragm is the main muscle of respiration–all other muscles are accessory to the diaphragm.

The diaphragm muscle is unique in that it has a central tendon–instead of the more common tendon points of distal and origin insertion points into bone.

So all the muscular fibers of the diaphragm are vertical and contract (inhale) and relax (exhale) into and from the central tendon. Inhale–fibers contract in towards the central tendon and the diaphragm flattens. Exhale–fibers relax and balloon up into the thoracic-lung cavity.

The diaphragm is connected with a lot–spine, pericardium/heart, liver, psoas muscles, etc.

So the diaphragm influences most movement.
Everything is connected.

In “Yoga Anatomy” Leslie Kaminoff gives a very scientific understanding of the diaphragm. He is the founder of the Breathing Project in NYC.

For decades I’ve studied the breathing techniques of Zen monk Dogen (circa 1300 A.D.)
But as Bruce claims, Taoist breathing techniques pre-date Zen and Buddhist breathing techniques by centuries.
This is why his explanations are deep and rich.

Yet, you do have to distinguish between physicality (scientific principles of breathing) and the energy arts understanding of breathing.

According to Master Jou, Tsung Hwa (“The Tao of Taijiquan”) “Tortoise breath” is the ultimate breathing technique. It goes even beyond “pre-birth” breathing.

Tortoise breathing is akin to your breathing into the belly as well as the sides and back. All cells contract and expand.

In “pre-birth” breathing Post-birth Qi, which is Yin, fills the lungs and approaches the diaphragm from above, while at the same time Pre-birth Qi, which is Yang, rises from the lower tantien up towards the diaphragm .
This type of inhalation combines the 2 Qi into a whole.

During exhalation the 2 Qi separate.

Now you’re approaching the concept of “breathing without breathing.”

Some of these concepts might seem to contradict your experiences with breathing.
But you have to remember that the movement of Qi (yin and yang) are two-way streets which go both ways at the same time. So your experiences are just as valid as anyone else’s theory.

Currently, I’ve been exploring feeling, seeing, listening to all these experiences with the gut–the lower tantien, rather than with the brain-eyes-ears.
Bruce suggests this, too.

It is a miraculous phenomenon as your essence/spirit permeates the water/fluid body and mind and sustains life.

Keep truckin

[Anonymous]

Nick

Letting go sounds about right .

Cody

[Anonymous]

Bruce said that you can drive and listen to the radio at the same time.

Don’t let go of the steering wheel.

But don’t distract yourself by trying to change the radio station.

[Anonymous]

Thanks Robert & Cody….just being able to ask, (as someone who has studied alone for a lengthy period ) releases something in me and makes me realise the answers are at least partially in the question.

In that light, I’ll ask another question related to breathing and sinking (and dissolving).

As you start at the top and work your way down the body, are you aiming to sink just to the next point down. Again with the way I breathe when standing the tendency I have is to sink whatever I can to the feet and beyond with each exhale each time. But since starting this programme I am exploring more awareness on smaller noticing/sinking between points e.g. grown to forehead, forehead to eyes. It means I can stand for 30 mins and not get far down at all.

I am still aware of simultaneous lower body sinking but paying less attention to it.

Hope that makes sense

Nick

[Anonymous]

Hello Nick… just a thought to add to those already posted (and I think some other post-comments might have addressed this/these topics, if one is able to find them).. What came to my mind was when you described:
“using my exhale to release and ‘sense’ sinking internally which seems to go on most strongly in belly/diagphram/pelvis simultaneously with other areas I am focusing on, which are less clear.”
-my interpretation of that was tying “sinking” and moving the tissues down below.. in a very direct-explicit way… as well as the idea (perhaps) of “using breathing” in terms of the physical breathing motion (which might be more explicit than say using the dynamic of the breathing change-process.. that sense of “something happening” and tying it.. not as a direct phy-chaining.. if that makes some sense).
========
an example that might help (if this is off from your exper, or you’ve already heard it, forgive the tangent). Bruce has used the example of feeling a ‘blockage’ and then the energy behind it (as in the phrase- the ‘power’ behind the throne.. as in what guides/directs it, not literally behind- just for any language confusion)..
[at times you may discover what is up-holding it is like you tightening your fist.. you can try and pry open that fist with your opposite hand.. or just “stop making a fist”.. you then don’t “open it” with an outside hand.. it opens, like a blossoming flower?, from the inside..]
Anyway- sinking can be thought of like a piece of ice in a freezer, stuck to the wall and melting a tiny bit, and a water-drop starts to seep down the wall.. just the slightest release of the ‘ice’ and then the water starts to fall, vs ‘dissolving’ is the ice nearly totally melting all at the spot, and then the water-drop runs down from there… either way there is a bit of release (ice to water, even if just a slight bit), and either way there is a flowing of that “changed quality” that goes with your attn on that spot to the next spot of attn (if your mind skips there, then over there, there is not spot for this qual-waterdrop to flow along with… thus sinking.. (to contrast stages).. point being, this change-quality is what is sought, and what the sensation of dynamic of breathing can help- sort of both in mind at once.. not directly phy connected (for this affect, although they might be physically- as the body is tied together).. but the let-go affect being from holding both in different parts of your awareness..
—
side-note:
(Tao-water process is much mellower than that term has always said to me. its not “melting” nor “dissolving” in an active way.. but a let-go opening from within.. that which has held it closed-inside it isn’t overcome, but is not-needed anymore? so it opens or not.. only cuz it isn’t “held closed”

—
anyway- to return to the ‘make a fist’… if you take one hand (assuming you don’t have a heart condition, or even migrane tendency.. as this can be intensely affecting your system, depending how far you take it.. [more freq, easy doses.. dipping one’s toe in the water, vs just dive-in] so that hand as a fist- make it white-knuckle.. slowly and carefully get it aligned and crank it tighter and tighter.. likely you’ll feel up your arm (espec in that armpit- and even the opposite arm pit, and then in organs… even in abs and kwa-hips.. even if you “isolate” that fist (just the fingers and forearm muscles used- but the tension affects further and further.. like how cold reaches out into water if something sub-zero submerged it.. ice-tendrils…..
then to release that- not just “open fingers'” (which if they were crushed, you won’t be able to “just open”.. as all the blood will have been squeezed out.. and they’ll feel a bit creaky…..)feel that “holding-binding” force (which is both what you are doing to hold tight, but also is how you connect-with and interpret the stagnate affect… as that dissipates, the feeling will go (chicken&egg?)… touch that with your awareness, and it may feel staticy, or solid-hard, or even hot-scorchy.. what can help this shift? (as you connect with, note does that change your breathing? or as you breathing does that help you resonate with a feeling that you can convey to that hand-“blockage”.. not try to change it, but rather assist any adjustments that can allow it to recover (as a “Blockage” -any of 4 conditions, just like the fist, won’t just “click” but like the fist opening.. the fluids and even the ache of the tension- even just mechanically will take a bit to adjust and rebalance… re-settle with gravity, and root- [where are you? now..?] as this occurs.. and thus some sinking…

If this last bit helps, another post in the Taoist breathing section might be of interest… anyway- hope gives something- what do you find?

or perhaps- http://www.energyarts.com/forum/blockages-tensions-strength-sinking-and-dissolving#comment-20291

luck

[Anonymous]

Thank you Taokua B,

The imagery of ice in the freezer dropping/melting was helpful.

I had tried the exercise ‘make a fist’ before, but after reading your post decided to try again and did so after about a 40 min standing/sinking practice. I made a fist thinking it would take 10 mins to release /let go, but I ended up standing for another 30-40 mins and realised that previous practices had been more external releasing the clench. This time I held tight for a long time only focusing awareness letting go inside to out in the hand, It released very very slowly. It made a lot more sense, and brought up a lot more subtle noticing of 4 conditions both in the hand and elsewhere in the body.

Even though I experienced a lot of mental commentary ( I think that happens for me when something new happens in practice) I managed to keep returning to awareness….a bit like a loose electrical connection, it did not bother me too much, just trying to accept where I am at.

Thank you.
Nick

[Anonymous]

Thinking about it, I don’t think the goal of sinking is to try for the next point down, but simply trying to sink as best you can within your 70%.
Depending on what that means at any given time it could mean, from the top of the head, to just to the eyebrow. On some days it might simply mean the entire practice is just getting the top of the head to feel something like sinking but that you can’t really make it sink any lower than where you started, kinda like water sitting in a glass.
Getting to your feet or below is goal oriented thinking and the process is about how you get there, the process includes the goal and others. If you just focus on the goal you may get there but not really, if that makes sense.
The fundamentals are always good, and just being aware of what is going on in your system is a good foundation to sinking. Using the standing practice just to observe.

Cody

[Anonymous]

I think two quotes from Cody’s last post were quite well said (in particular, not that the rest wasn’t).. just these say it well..
“On some days it might simply mean the entire practice is just getting the top of the head to feel something like sinking but that you can’t really make it sink any lower than where you started, kinda like water sitting in a glass.”

and

“The fundamentals are always good, and just being aware of what is going on in your system is a good foundation to sinking. Using the standing practice just to observe.”
Notice what is going on, and to what degree we are fiddling.interferring with “what is going on” (even subcon-automatically)- like say breathing reflex how we are clutching or trying to (even slightly) control it.. or even sinking (“allow” falling with gravity.. which is a bit ironic.. I mean we can’t levitate on purpose.. se we are always falling with gravity.. but not so much “align with” as just not dis-align/dis-connect ourselves from “it” -the event, as it is occurring.)

[Anonymous]

Cody
I think what you describe is exactly what I am just starting to sense from the first month’s training, which is partly why I signed up, exploring awareness of processes in standing beyond a certain not so comfortable ‘comfortable’ plateau I had reached in earlier solo practice. I think awareness of 4 conditions, or any awareness at all is good progress!
Thanks for the input. At the moment I am most happy to be showing up each day and seeing what happens which is never the same.
Nick

[Anonymous]

I recognize the breathing puzzle: I healed my chronic pain by doing abdominal breathing and now as I stand , I keep breathing out going down( sinking) and breathing in raising or expanding. This associates the breath with contraction and expansion of tissues in the body, especially the abdomen which includes the lower back. And my puzzle was following the mind all the way to my feet while breathing out and then breathing in traveling up to the top….? That did not really work very well as my mind was slower to go down feeling all the resistance in the body and wanting to stop and ‘melt’ the blockage. So then I followed what Bruce said: as best you can keep going down . Now that meant for me, contraction or expansion with the breath to locally melt and then continue going down. There are some breathing exercises described in the comments that resemble the neigong( internal) practice in which the heart chakra and the lower chakra( the Tantien) combine as we breath in and separate as we breath out, but the trajectory of the mind ( as I learned it) is to bring breath into chakras following the inside of our limbs and letting the chakras come together as we settle into the chakras ( called the gold process) and then they separate as we travel in our mind on the outside of our limbs back to toes and tip of fingers. This process is not the same as the standing Qigong in which we sink the Qi. The neigong combines water and fire producing steam and the whole body is covered in sweat. I am not there yet though I generate heat. But my experience with the standing is not far from this in terms of heat , as Bruce says more circulation means more blood ,means more heat . And resolving the blockages will in time make the ‘steaming ‘process easier…

[Anonymous]

Hi Vera,
Thanks for your comments, on breathing. Following some practice in month two and into 3, and exploration rotating the arms or the tissues in them (and it feels like it begins to happen in legs too, though the videos have not addressed this)- I think the ‘puzzle’ you refer to has for me slightly shifted in that when I am dropping mind though to the feet from wherever higher in the body, there is a simultaneous rising that seems to make sense to me in my body….like a wave of displacement as sinking occurs, so too does rising, without me directly associating it with breathing in/out ( as you describe – and I also experience). Bruce talks about this in various places and contexts, but I am just beginning to sense it more clearly. Even if I am aware and working on a blockage higher up, I still to keep part of my mind carrying whatever can get through down to the feet. The whole thing works best when my awareness goes in opposite directions- a sense of sinking to the feet, but glanced by lifting of the crown. I still have a strong core link with belly breathing while standing, but I try to keep softening the relationship.

Incidentally, if I understand my distracting thoughts as blockages of some kind, I have made made some enjoyable progress in sending them out the soles of my feet as I exhale, a way to let them go…so even if they rise again (as discussed above) they are somewhat transformed joining the stream of whatever else is flowing up as energy without being active thought. Thinking is just energy, so it might as well get on board and sink with the rest

All the above gets interesting in the intermediate instruction of Month 3 where you begin simultaneously sinking to feet and rising up to upper body and fingers from Lower Dantien to raise the arms out and up. For me I only being to sense this if I manage to soften my breath a lot, then I get moments of connectedness and my arms do lift without any effort…other times I feel like I am pumping (forcing), and I go back to arms by the sides.

Best wishes, and thanks also for your useful thoughts on the Lunar Cycle.

Nick

[Anonymous]

Hi Robert
A belated short thank you for your useful response, sometimes it is weeks later that I read again can absorb.

Years ago I ‘tried’ too hard to grasp “pre and post brith qi” in relation to breathing ..with a few over eager bad experiences rising too much qi up my spine, towards my head , & it left me cautious of working without a good teacher (“The Tao of Taijiquan” still sits on my bookcase in a long line of adventures)…….When I found BKF’s Energy Gates, I found it to be a solid foundation for breathing that I could learn again & his strong early on grounding energy really suits me….and thats how I ended up standing here and now.

I am only getting glimpses of the possibilities of exploring from the Lower Dantien rather than my overused head brain:)

Best wishes & thanks

Nick

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