Compare to other Mindfulness Meditations

[Anonymous]

What can you compare in Bruce’s approach with other methods? How is he similar or different?

Sharon Salzberg and Cheri Maples are widely known teachers. Is anyone familiar with their approaches?

[Anonymous]

Hi, Joan.

I;ve read a fair amount on Buddhist meditation, including some of Sharon’s things. I don’t anything about the Cheri Maples. What I’ve found is that the initial mindfulness training Bruce teaches is pretty consistent with other approaches. But when you get beyond the basic mind training, then the whole philosophical context of the system becomes important and can’t be abstracted from the meditation technique. I find Buddhism interesting ( and it certainly is widely available in many forms) but I’m not a Buddhist and so haven’t pursued any of their meditation methods too deeply. After quite a bit of research, study, and practice, I think Taoism is the path for me. And Bruce’s specific set of practices and beliefs the most coherent, accessible, and profound within Taoism.

For a good overview of meditation, including vipassana, zen, mindfulness, and other practices, check out Livai Kohn’s “Meditation Matters.” It’s quite good and might have some answers for you.

Best wishes,
mjn

[Anonymous]

Matthew, Is Vivia Kohn’s book called Meditation Works? I found it comes in an Audiobook also.

Thanks so much for the comparison of what we are doing to the Mindfulness Meditations of others. Do we call what we are doing Mindfulness meditation? What other adjective would describe what we are learning from Bruce?

[Anonymous]

Yes, sorry, Joan. Meditation Works. It’s a really good. Like all her works, carefully researched and thorough. A little dry. She’s unusual for a scholar in that she’s also a practitioner.

As far as our type of meditation. I think Bruce’s system has a lot in common with basic mindfulness practices. You could argue that everything that deals with becoming more aware is a mindfulness practice.

However, what Bruce teaches is a unique system that’s a subset of taoist internal alchemy. I don’t know of any system like it. I think once you get past the surface, it’s no longer what would traditionally be called a mindfulness practice. I think the label “mindfulness” refers to a specific aspect of Buddhist meditation, but I could be wrong. Inner dissolving just isn’t like anything else I’ve encountered in the meditation world. I’ve done a fair amount of searching to find and ultimately settle on this system as the one I’m most interested in.

There’s a type of Taoist meditation called Sitting in Oblivion, Sitting and Forgetting, or quiet sitting that I think is close – but still distinct from – Zen sitting and I can see that once you dissolve to emptiness that you could do this other type of meditation. Kohn has a good book about it and there are other Taoist teachers who teach this system. You might want to check it out.

I hope other people who are more knowledgable and experienced about meditation than I am will chime. I still consider myself pretty much a newbie.
best, mjn

[Anonymous]

Hey Joan,

Here’s how I tend to think of it.

In Bruce’s system Mindfulness (or presence) is a basic skill. In order to do inner dissolving you need to be present to what you are doing. If you sit and meditate for 1 hour but are distracted for 55 minutes, then you really only got about 5 minutes of practicing done.

This problem of being distracted all the time is a basic problem that is faced by all mediators in all traditions. Since it is such a core problem, Bruce spends a lot of time teaching people how to be present for a greater and greater percentage of the time. The Taoist Meditation Circle mp3’s that he’s put out spend a great deal of time on that subject. He often talks about it in terms of efficiency or money. “Do you want to make $1/hour or $100/hour? Do you want to be more efficient with your practice time or less efficient?”.

Once you get to the point that you can be stable and present more often then not, then you would move on to learn the Inner Dissolving technique. This is the core technique of this meditation system.

Hope this helps,
Janak

[Anonymous]

Um….blind men…elephant. Or does nobody else know that one?…

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Janak.

This is a useful elucidation.

Guy, I don’t think this is a blind men and the elephant thing because, at their deepest level, Buddhist and Taoist practices function in the context of different world views. At least, that’s my perspective on it. Mindfulness is only the most surface level of Buddhist meditation, in much the same way it’s at the surface of Inner Dissolving. Once you get past that part of it, the two systems of meditation are very different.

cheers, all
mjn

[Anonymous]

Hi Matthew!!

Now this is really very interesting. To my mind, if mindfulness teaches anything, it is that which is real, as opposed to the false. Because if through relaxed concentration, and dissolving all blockages to the real, or releasing any attachments and aversions, or recognising all distraction ( or whatever), then the mind can become clear and able to perceive what is real; what is actually true.

Mindfulness in Buddhism is recognising distraction and attachments and aversions. Similarly, if I understand correctly, the inner dissolving process is similar. It is – it is the same.

The real question is this: Is one’s philosophical world view formulated as a reaction to what can be perceived as reality by meditation (or mindfulness or whatever), or can one’s world view actually influence what one can actually perceive to be real?

If by the simple process of relaxed concentration, or mindfulness, or inner dissolving (or whatever), one comes to realise what is true, what else is there to meditation?

Great talking to you again…

[Anonymous]

Hi, Guy.

I think you’re right about the ultimate goal of Bruce’s method in particular. He says many times, in many context, that once you remove the false, only what’s true remains. I think the only thing here is that I was using the term mindfulness as a specific beginning practice or presence and concentration, not as a general name for the overall system. But you’re right. And you raise an interesting question about worldview. In Livia Kohn’s opinion, supported by a lot of research, is that worldview does influence the perception of reality, even in terms of what the enlightened state is. I guess I’ll have to wait and see about that…

best, matthew

[Anonymous]

Yes, and also that the Taoist approach is so much more comprehensive in the beginning phases, with so much attention to the preparation of the physical body; alignments and standing and outer dissolving etc.. And as for bagua moving meditation – mind-blowing really. Big fan!…

See you Matthew…

[Anonymous]

Matthew this is an excellent discussion.

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