holding the breath

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone,

I learned Taiji to my best some years ago and found it really wonderful. I am quite a water person so I quite fit easily into the flow of Qi. I then practice contemplation (not meditation) together with breathing techniques coming from the Indian and then later Buddhist Tantric traditions of Pranayama. As my Taiji teachers says always do not concentrate on the breathing when you do Taiji .. just let things unfold with the movement. I follow that advice and feel at ease and at home with it. Now the point I would like to address here is the holding the breath which is performed in Pranayama. In terms of pure health, I understand that holding the breath has some benefits for oxygen optimal assimilation, while the exhale part is important for carbon dioxide elimination. Additionally, on the deeper level of contemplation, the holding the breath stops or slows down the thinking process (at least for for a bit) and in my experience is directly linked with the Taiji essence from which the flow eternally arises without discontinuity.. thus Taiji. Holding the breath is not so dangerous but need to be supervised by a Master at he apprentice level. Otherwise, the holding the breath is not recommended for people with cardiac or blood pressure issues such as hypertension.

So to summarize my post, I would like to say that Breathing is Very essential for deeper practices of both Chinese or Indian traditions, that holding the breath should be supervised and lead to experiences of a calm ’empty’ state, and that continuous flowing breathing is the manifestation of life itself from this calm state (whatever you want to symbolize it as the dimensionless center of the Taiji symbol) with endless, beginning-less bounty, making our energy system stronger and stable.

Pat

[Anonymous]

Hello Pat,
You don’t mind if I say I don’t think what you mention are sound. My viewpoints are:-
1. Almost all style of taiji do not teach breathe control, it is done naturally and in fact if it is done without awareness of the breathing is even better. Breathing is a very important body function almost like the heart beat. We can’t survive long without breathing and so the body have absolute and very very good control of the breathing going on. We just need to work the qi and the breathe will follow suit naturally. The mind have a higher function then the qi and the qi have a higher function then the breathe, being such, to get the breathe to work the qi is usually unproductive. Bruce Frantzis in the Opening the energy gates book clearly mentioned that holding of breathe in any form is to be avoid. Holding of breathe in Pranayama and some yang qigong is like packing qi in the body and can go out of control with very serious consequent. Hatha yogis are expert in what they are doing and in this case mostly done in spiritual practice (kundalin practice). Holding breathe and counting breathe is done to change the qualities of breathe (like yin or yang) and not for enhancing the quantity of qi. Pranayama practice used to be an exotic branch of yoga even in India.

Breathing is essential and is best to be left to the body naturally. Now and then breathing is mentioned in qigong and Bruce is teaching Taoist breathing partly because we often do not breathe correctly. We have adopted bad breathing habit (you can imaging the mind is all powerful and is running our life subconsciously and some where in life it has warp our behaviour, breathing and everything) and all the qigong breathing can be seen as guiding the breathing to go back to its natural state. Incidentally, too much concentration and breathe control will likely leads to upper chest breathing. A person then feels upper chest congestion which is unhealthy because of muscle tension, tightness and blood vessels and nerves congestion, as a result sometimes it can be quite serious. A person can easily practice breathing with the diaphragm and the lower abdomen and learn to let it go naturally and feel free and more energetic..

2. Contemplation and meditation, as I understand , is usually done without breathe control. In spiritual practice we are trying to shut out the body, the world and its sensations, and the chattering mind that follows. In this way the mind is free and it can travel in the inner world or be”in the body”. We should be so absorbed in our contemplation or meditation that the mind leave out the body and breathing awareness.The breathe should be slow, long and continuous like silk thread. If we are thinking of breathing we are not meditating.
There is a meditation method in which we were told to contemplate on the breathe. The idea is not to work the breathe in any way. The purpose is to give the mind something to do to assist the mind to concentrate and focus and stay free of the external environment and mind chatter.It is just to watch the breathing, do nothing and be so adsorbed into it that the mind becomes the breathe, follow the breathe and qi which belongs to the astral region inside.

I hope we are in the same wavelength

Daniel.

[Anonymous]

Hello Daniel,

Nice to meet and discuss with you a bit on these points.

I think that we agree mostly on all points.

1) As I have said in the Taiji breathing is flow and is not controlled. So we agree
2) The holding the breath as I have said must be supervised when practiced and is done during spiritual practices (I omitted the spiritual word indeed). Also as I have said it is not recommended if the person has some ailments of some sorts (thus supervision is mandatory). You mention Hatha yogi but there are other types of yoga such as Yantra Yoga which is well known in Dzogchen teachings, where holding is an important point. Frantzis mention three ways that are very similar in one of his interview: Tao, Dzogchen and Mahamudra. So we agree on that
3) Packing the Qi when holding.. humm this is may be where we diverge.. The holding the breath in Yantra Yoga for example is not as much as packing anything, but opening to the flow like space open the door to all things. Most people try to ‘pack’ when they hold but this is the big mistake of beginners. And thus again I repeat the need of a Master who can guide the practitioner.
4) I don’t know much about Kundalini yoga and I know that it can be dangerous… (my wife experienced that and happy to still be on earth for a bit)
5) Contemplation is beyond meditation as you say. Meditation still use the mind to ‘watch’ something like a light focus. Meditation on breath is great and of course does not require holding the breath at all but as you say just notice and let the mind be free of disturbing thinking process. Contemplation does not shut the senses but open them wide. The reason is that, once you have discovered the inner world, you want to realise that there is not border between our inner and outer reality. Thus if the senses are shut, there is no chance to discover that. The ultimate spiritual goal is just that.

Also, I see the main problem in modern society is that people breathe very shallow from the chest and don’t know how to breathe completely anymore. This leads to further fatigue and other problems, increase the stress and tensions.. We both understand that very well.. Breathing/Qi flow is Life as you said..

So to summarize, I see there are two aspects: 1) health (taiji, qi gong, free breathing), 2) spiritual. The two goes together of course but the ultimate goals are not the same and the techniques are somehow different.

Great to exchange our views and experiences..

Pat

[Anonymous]

Interesting sharing of perspectives; as was written, different systems, different goals. (Such a temptation to lump contexts together, which may be tricky at times…

the only ‘linkage” is in practice, and the affects such actions/techniques have) …

hard to fore-see/know what the results will be ‘in time’ (the old- “If i only knew then, what I know now…”

– in relation to having experience.. so really— “If only I know Now, what I could know in the future, to then choose my way / or guide another..”

[Anonymous]

Hello Peter,
Great to know that behind the apparently casual remark is a lots of careful thoughts and experience. The problem with spiritual practice is that these are things beyond this physical world. The sages and sants who knowns do not talk much because what they known cannot be explained, and or they do not like to change the world too much or engage in worldly discussion and debate. What is found in the holy books were often misquote and misunderstood. The Buddhist from the Chinese and Tibetan tradition (the Chinese place a lots of importance on ancestors and society) is of the view that their enlighten beings are compassionate and consider helping fellow human being as paramount duty. I mean they are different from others in this respect.

I see a big problem in that people cannot see beyond this physical universe and so simply have no interest in spiritual things. Their own mind and consciousness is an unknown and it is fashionable to disbelieve in God and such.

I think spiritual teaching or knowledge should be simple and clear in such a way that people can easily grasp their essential meaning and can practice it base on simple clear instruction. It should be packaged such that people can understand and get what they want. However in truth the inner mind and consciousness is too complicated for human brain to comprehend. We will depend on a lots of honesty to ourselves, sincerity, and careful studies in order to get to a correct path. Scholars have debated endlessly on all the religion and they can never come to a common conclusion, a lots of effort is needed to get to the truth or correct path.

Taichi and qigong is not spiritual knowledge and is about the physical body and there is no complication here. It is like what you see is what you get. It is readily demonstrable. Trouble with qigong is that practising and getting the result might not be so clear cut.

It is great of you to give us something to think about.

Daniel

[Anonymous]

Daniel and others,

Nice to share here on this very nice place of peace and learning.

Spirituality is beyond the consensus reality, but at the same time it is just it..

So yes spirituality must become parts of our daily life as we eat, sleep, make love, and do Taiji. Most people are not so much interested in spirituality because they want fast material results and cannot see the timeless and spaceless impact of their actions and thoughts. We need to reeducate them that spirituality is just life itself, lived with great Love and Compassion, and lead to great benefits at all levels, short and very long term speaking.. So spirituality and all practices that can bring that alive is actually very practical and useful.

I agree spirituality must be taught in the simplest form, going to the essence. Traditions are also wonderful but we must now go beyond dogmas and views.

Holding the breath – no-breath, we are all breathing life forms..

Pat

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