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I recently purchased Robert Tangora’s cloud hands book, and while most of it is far too advanced for me I think there are certainly parts that I could work on.
In particular I was wondering about the opening/closing of the joints. After reading his explanation I think I’ve been doing them in reverse. He describes opening as a squeezing of the synovial fluid in the joints. I think it’s not too hard to see why I could have seen that as a closing. I had been going by the energy gates book up until now, but it’s a bit more general in terms of explaining it.
Has anyone got any points on…
a) how I should approach the opening/closing
b) what I should feel
c) should I be able to see the lengthening from opening or is it more subtle?
d) what is a good way to train it?I guess this might be in the program but I kind of want to get into it asap so that I can try and create the 4 energies with the opening/closing like Robert Tangora explains in his book.
Thanks.
Hi, Cameron.
I think you should get with a teacher that can put their hands on your and show you what it feels like when the joints open and close. I think Robert;s description you allude to above is too simple and needs a lot more info to be really clear. Bruce discusses opening and closing at length in the Bagua Mastery Program and it’s a lot more involved than in Robert’s description. You can also check Paul Cavel’s website for great information.
If you can study Heaven and Earth qigong, that’s where Bruce has his teachers really lay out opening and closing. For me, it’s a complete opening in all directions including the bones in the joints moving away from each other. Maybe Robert is talking about squeezing the spaces between the joints to get this space to open up. It doesn’t feel that way to me. Closing is the opposite. I think you need to feel it for yourself and that’s why being with a teacher is important.
You can see the larger joints open and close. With smaller joints the movement can be too subtle.
The best way to train is with heaven and earth.
That’s just my 2 cents. I’m interested to see what some of the other folks say.
Good luck,
Matthew
Oh right, what part of the bagua mastery program? I have put that one on hold as I was spreading myself too thin with all the things I was trying to train. Only really got up to the 4 part straight line stuff.
I was doing it your way by just imagining everything expanding outwards. It does have an effect but I’m not sure whether it’s just due to the relaxation around the joints. I’m presuming that this is not the same as opening.
Not to be flippant or disrespectful of Bob, but you should at least entertain the idea that he got it wrong. From my perspective it is irrelevant anyway: the openings and closings are ultimately a function of energy movement. Tai Chi is an energy art.
By Bruce’s definition, if the bones move away from each other the joint is opening and if they move closer, it is a close. How you create that movement is another matter.
The synovial fluid can expand or condense. So can the tissue around it. If you are expanding and contracting the synovial fluid, the joint will open and close as Bruce describes. If you are expanding and condensing the tissue around the synovial fluid, you could squeeze the synovial fluid into a shape that would elongate the joint which would be consistent with Bob’s description. Bruce is very clear about what you are supposed to do. How you make it happen is something else.
I open and close the joints purely from the energy gate at the center of the joint. That is what Bruce taught me; however, the way I would describe what I’m doing won’t sound anything like Bruce’s instruction. I just didn’t “get it” from Bruce’s verbal instruction. I had to take a very circuitous route.
IMHO, Matthew offered good advice in answer to all of your questions.
Robert Tangora makes it clear in his book that his ‘tube/rod’ model is very much simplified to focus on ‘opening and closing joint power’. He’s trying to clarify the distinction between bend/stretch and open/close. He describes how the tendons and ligaments which surround joints expand radially to compress the enclosed synovial capsule (and its contained fluid) and cause the joint to open, regardless of bending and stretching (flexing and extending through muscle contraction/relaxation). That is, radial compression from ligaments and tendons surrounding the synovial capsule squeezes the synovial fluid outward away from the centre of the joint so that it forces the bone ends apart, pushing the joint open. When one end of the joint is fixed (rooted) this causes the other end to be pushed away, i.e., projecting power. He discusses the importance of whole body joint alignment in generating this essential component of the whole body ‘hydraulic power’ of tai chi and other internal arts. This is not contradicting Bruce and, as Matthew says, is best learned with hands on help. Alternatively, try this. With a bare arm palm up slightly bend your elbow enough to see a crease in the fold of your elbow. Then without straightening your arm at all simultaneously sink your torso without letting your arm sink with it, whilst gently extending your fingers away from your body. You’ll see the crease (i.e., elbow joint) open even though the arm remains bent. Hope this helps. Eventually you’ll begin to feel the more subtle energetic sensations.
………thinking about this a bit more, Bruce advocates that bending and stretching are primarily related to the skeletal ligaments, rather than muscles. My understanding from Bruce is that bending – at least in part – occurs due to post stretching elastic recoil of ligaments that connect to bone either side of a joint. So bending and stretching is about ‘longitudinal’ elasticity in ligaments (and other connective tissue?). According to my interpretation of Tangora, opening and closing is about radial expansion and contraction of ligaments and tendons: radial expansion of tendons and ligaments that cross/surround a joint compresses the enclosed synovial capsule ‘squeezing’ the joint to open, with the opposite happening when the tendons and ligaments contract radially thus decompressing the synovial capsule, causing the joint to ‘suck’ close. I tried to find more information on the web, but could only find anatomical information suggesting that radial collateral ligaments are the most important in this process. Hopefully, someone with more knowledge than I can clarify, support or refute my thinking. I’m now concerned that there may be an issue comparable to the debate about ‘muscular extension’ advocated by Robert Chuckrow (seehttp://www.amazon.com/review/R1TWYC33F0IS7S/ref=cm_cr_dp_cmt?ie=UTF8&ASIN=1594391165&nodeID=283155&store=books#wasThisHelpful).
To add to what was mentioned in this post- I’ve found that these fundamentals are not what they first appear to be.
-initially observers are certain that “relax completely” means to take it easy, yet still use muscles (vs creating enough Hydraulic pressure and elastic suspension via the skeletal-bones, to support a shape against gravity) ie at first it can’t be seen (even if understood).
But then once that is felt to a degree, the concept is demonstrated (for ex KAI-HE Opening-closing.. part of Growing-shrinking).. which is shown in a partner-exer of pull jt apart, then bring back together… (which is usually done too forcefully- but if done at ease so the jt can let-go and “feel safe” the fluid starts to rush it and be squeezed out..)
This is what could be the second viewpt which is also a misunderstanding as when you are being moved by another, that is going to be different than if you are Opening-closing yourself.. because there are not “fingers” manipulating you… ie in the partner exer (or even doing to your own self- one could do the solo exer “moving the small muscles near the jt- which is contracting-tension not KAI-HE)
in other words, to get your Jt to Open- the fluid needs to flow into the fluid-capsule and “inflate it” (maybe this is what is referred to as squeezing it open? not sure)… but getting fluid to flow into the jt- which then filling and grows (like a water balloon being filled) is quite different from the passive reaction.. but the passive reaction gets one in the ballparki? Just some thoughts (and to add to Cameron’s comments above, the idea of Bend (the Yin Echannels of weichi flows) and Stretch (the Yang Echannels of weichi flows) … has layers but to have that not be an image focused on while using the bicep-triceps to drive the motion– have the arm bend from the “bending”I’ve found recently when the Pulse (of the blood vessels- all over, as well as in parts, let alone the spiralling-net of the Echannels) is moving its like being in a room of echoes swirls and shiftings, which tends to get things moving, and affects right to the “weakest link” . the part that is stuck or bound all the rest of body links into that.. need back off and integrate..
Just a potential third perspective after the first two mentioned above (of perceiving, or not, these components)… is creating tension in the torso- in abs or near spine related or not to breating.. which creates a hydraulic pressure in the “torso” which is directed up the arms and/or down the legs… not that I recommend that, just that how that can occur subconsciously… when one notices that and can then try to determine how to create the support of the shape (against gravity) -like filling a balloon/tent with cables and struts- but not just be using tension elsewhere.. but energetic flow (and what does that mean? how often “glass ceilings” are created by- not sure how to hold arm up without using “any” muscle? so forget it.. (I find arms-hands hanging from shoulder, then curl your fingers just enough from the curling of Energetic flows- so that can be effortless, then bring wrist in, then elbow.. etc. but only enough that the gravity/leverage is overcome by the energetic support and not “old-style movement” -strengthens over time, just like a paralyzed person rebuilds not just the “muscles” but the nerve strength. both intensity and duration –phy rehab “Struggle”.. develops
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in short- what might the distinction be of getting Opening-Closing to occur (vs Bend-stretch) from within the Egate itself (NOT the phy jt nor even the Fluid Capsule/fluid pocket) but the Egage (which may then affect the fluid and thereby the jt, and may or may not fold-unfold the jt) but the Egate itself to KAI and HE (radiating outward, or attracting inward, respectively.. and don’t think of size changing- more like the air blowing out or suction… spherically.. the affected phy tissue actually moves=changes size.. but the Egate is still- just generating a field with one of two polarity qualities (like an ElectroMagnet that Flips “North? or “South” mag field.. and if a North-poled magnet is nearby it is thereby repelled or attracted respectively.. but the turning On the Emagnet and Flipping N to S back to N jis an electrical circuit flow, no moving parts..) I don’t know if that adds to understandings above, or confuses.
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