Dissolving Questions

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    I have been doing more outer dissolving in the last few weeks trying to clear the left side of the body. It is slowly working.

    One question I have is about the exact technique. It takes a long long time to dissolve and I wonder really what is the technique. Eventually you will dissolve something if you keep your awareness on it, but I am a long time meditator so I have been experimenting with different approaches. For instance have a loving and surrendering contact between the mindstream and the energetic matrix of the area seems effective. Brutal masculine awareness does not.

    I read one man on the forum had been doing it for 3 years several hours a day and had mostly cleared out his trauma. But that is a vast amount of time. 3000 hours to mostly do something.

    When I think about that kind of time I don’t think this is going to work for me. It is a difficult practice actually.

    And I wonder if there are alternatives. I tried bio-energetic shaking once, and it also seemed to clear out energy blockages and the music quite good – it was fun. And there is also Osho Kundalini meditation, similar shaking.

    A larger view is that there are always going to be new blockages and stress occurring so is dissolving practice really yielding anything long-term ? That’s a question.

    If new problems occur when you are dissolving old problems … this is not a winning combination.

    So unless you can develop the kind of skill where you can dissolve your entire body quickly – anyone ?? I have the feeling it is not a strong enough or pleasurable medicine.

    There are always problems happening in life and in order to overcome the entire movement of life, one has to have a force much greater. Or it is forever fighting fires.

    Such a force is awakening (of consciousness), another is love (awakening of the heart).

    Those are my thoughts. I have spent 2 weeks dissolving the left side of my torso and arm … but at this rate it would take 2 months of painful and difficult practice to clear that area to about 80%. But even then, so what ? New problems will come and how does it help me.

    I am interested in any views; I feel life is short and one should not begin things that will not work.



    I just tried dissolving the 8 major points on a diagram and that seems more like it could work than dissolving geographically. I might try that.




    Best of Luck in your seeking and discoveries… just a few thoughts- I’ve been working with dissolving (in its different aspects) the most of these Earts, and investigating many Energy systems (taoist and otherwise), Bruce’s seem to be the core I’ve found the most.. but they are tricky, as our cultural-mindset flips things so easliy (like a subcon temptation)…
    -for instance the water, vs the fire-forcing it, put your attention on it and “get it to dissolve” is forcing it (even the idea of “love” on to something to get it to change- A) a supporting presence, discovery, just look and see is ‘one thing’ (~unconditional).. B) a conditional, ‘with-strings’ support, with msg it will be withdrawn unless it changes (whether another person, or a ‘blockage’ to change- dissolve but it is part-of-You) sort of “I’ll reject you if you don’t change”.. but until then feel they acceptance == that’s a second thing.. but
    C) is a third thing- which isn’t “love” (A).. nor Inclusion, but only until, only if.. (B).. but C) is like the feeling people get standing up in front of a crowd and feel prodded/ like an attentional-pressue that is pushing to change.. which can be ‘felt’ from many that call that projecting ‘attn” love.. (like I’m ignoring or ‘turning-away’ from aspects I don’t like- what if you were like XYZ.. you can do it… sort-of the opposite of (B) which is acceptance that could be removed, (C) is only-if.. won’t be given until/if change..

    Anyway long thing- just one aspect the question, is this the correct path is a good question to ask.. and yet if you decide to test something, and then change it around, who can tell what the recipe will give… it seems from a couple of comments that you may be working with “images” and mental-representations.. at least “indirectly” …. (and one of the keys, few points Bruce wrote about points in a bit of a different way, I thought.. I’m not sure where you’ve learned it from).. but the temptation/interest to mix and match with “other traditions” is strong. and fine to do, but then (as another writer wrote on this subject, its like Orange Juice and Coffee.. both good, but mix the two together,,, umm neither is the same-
    end up with a Third..

    – it could be like “Reese” “peanut-butter chocolate’ though.. who knows..
    Another aspect of indirectly contacting, vs direct connection with.. is the idea of 2 months to get to 80% .. could be just a metaphor.. but “for-me” Taoist energetic change is like discovery and seeking a creative solution to a new problem:
    either I haven’t an idea, or
    an idea has arisen and I have yet to test it, or
    I test an idea and find ‘no’ (back to seeking an idea), or ‘yes’ either partial or full success…….

    So in that model- if not there- is nice to say half way, or one more hour, one more month, or five years.. (which works if “stacking blocks” or some other set of tasks in a sequence, can plan and status).. but if AHA got it.. can tell you’ve almost? -just my view, I hope that makes sense..

    So in short- good question, I think the essence of these NeiGung (espec Dissolving (each of its quite different types), going Sung/song (sing? :).. or KaiHe (pulsing).. let alone working from the deeper aspects of mind…) are not understood and most of the effort is getting that AHA.. that’s it.. then you’ll look back and think- “I thought this self-struggle “relaxation” was dissolving.. and now I know/feel/experience that dissolving is….. something i hadn’t experienced nor expected before.”

    [ of course above may be obvious if you are working with/from the depths of mind ~mindstream… as you reference, as the part of mind that is aware of the stream, isn’t the mind that thinks in words, nor even the mind that rides the ‘waves of mind” nor even is the waves.. but what moves those waves, and flows beneath.. so in that regards I’m confused about how to interpret some comments– as working at that lvl changes your mental structure…. ala:
    “contact between the mindstream and the energetic matrix of the area seems effective.”

    Thus I could be off-base and all this is already evident]

    I think of it like “shadow puppets” (you- move your arm and ‘part of you’ your hand- in front of a light, and thus form a shadow-silhouette on the wall… changing the shape of your fingers creates certain shapes that may not be evident from only seeing the shadow on the wall.. What can the “Shadow on the wall” do to make itself change? What shape can the Shadow-on-the-wall do to change the hand, let alone the rest of the body of the person making the shadows?

    And yet to realize from that deeper layer of mind- that it is an expression of.. so you mean have a thought about XYZ? That doesn’t go deeper, that is going more-indirect more in thought-pictures and “out of the moment”.. so tricky.. (and in our pop-culture, so many ideas about if I frame the context of how I understand things.. and feel as-if I can a bigger-me then…
    Except that is different then AHA, and once you’ve seen- it changes the questions.. how long? if you look North and wonder how long it would take on the journey North.. but then {mix the method, let alone misconceive) so you walking West (or even NWish.. but not North).. you may feel a bit off-target.. perhaps as not walking to the target…

    I hope that might help some-in there.. Happy NearEnd of Year and Holidays (to those that celebrate any) but most of all a good time to re-eval (to circle back, to what i think was your initial point).. to re-question and look with fresh eyes.. am I on track? (to where I seek to go- being following a certain method to achieve something you don’t actually want, is as “off” as following a method to achieve what you DO actually want.. but it not working For You).. how to re-eval..
    I feel one should feel on-track in each practice session, as well as sense short-term over time changes (however incremental).. and then long-term-view (~10yrs or so) in terms of seeing where you could go. (and re-examine these Three Progress-statuses- which may just be a quick thought- not some big eval-process)

    But this all comes down to an Assumption-WorkingModel I use: that how I see things isn’t quite the way that I will, in a bit (hopefully- as I am to “understand” a bit more- and thus AHA and realize that I was confusing-muddling-oversimplifying (and complicating) but most of all.. just off-track.. as if you practice for Years and step along, but find you see the method and how it works pretty much the same as you did when you started .. then you haven’t A) expanded that much, nor B) been learning a system that is that different from the PopCulture…

    in terms of the second-pt.. if you read about dissolving, say, and go “I get what is meant” that means you sorta pretty much already knew that concept.. so then learning it won’t give you that much new…. ? (it may give tweaks, but not a Quantum-Jump… while if it is something new and “outSide the BoX” it is coming from a model that is not what you already knew.. then when you first learn about it, and still as you come to learn it.. you won’t know (either confused, or assume ah its like XYZ).. My view is, if its pretty much what I already knew, it will only get me pretty much what I’ve already been getting — to get something New/breakthrough.. it will be a new skill based on a new viewpoint using new attributes (again with the “OH I never realized there was that…. but now that I do, I can work with it, and thus any result that required that.. I couldn’t have had before, but I could- perhaps now.. but first I’ll be -AllThumbs as I integrate this new thing…” .. and yet again, and again and again (layers of .. Oh, now I see a bit more.. —-so I just assume, what I understand now will do that, even though there is a Temptation to say/think..

    “In the past I was mistaken, and did an AHA, realizing I was off-track.. but “now” I’ve figrued it all out.” -instead, what if what I assume now isn’t quite, and yet what I assume that would mean also changes.. ? [thus the teachings, fdbk, etc. But if This is like that, let alone if This is the same as that.. then only need one of them– but if keep them all independent, then you Can mix&match.. once your sure what you’re doing..] .. so:

    How-To get a reality-check, and refinements, and what Path to walk on (which way to go.. so not waste-time,, or even “always” going the wrong-way.. or going nowhere)) ? -thats the question.. (and thus relation to the warrior’s way, and fearlessness.. or rather- understanding the “danger/risk” not of combat, or even of unleashing the STUFF in the mind’s depths (and de-stabilizing) but Am I Doing it right? or going on a tanget? (let alone walking towards a cliff…)..

    That’s the question.. -luck all



    Advanced techniques
    I read once in an esoteric book that to dissolve blockages one should first transmit chaotic vibrations (of mixed frequencies) into it, and then transmit a constant vibration to it. In this way it is supposed to break up the blockage.
    I just tried mixing that information into dissolving practice and it did indeed seem to do something. First I imagined long sea waves vibrating the blockage, and then very fast waves shaking and twisting waves, and then the long ones again, really trying to break it up. After that just pure calm attention constant energy as per normal. And alternating chaotic waves and pure waves like that as needed.
    Perhaps it could be useful to break up difficult areas.



    Thanks for your comments




    Is anyone able to be specific about how large an area to dissolve ? 1 inch or one limb or ???




    I think it is about the size of the blockage, so, I think that can mean just about anything.
    Just to share my own frustrations, (hopefully help you and help me vent) my problem at present has been about realizing just where in my body the blockage is that I’m dissolving. In a way, the blockage creates a numbness or disconnection between my body and mind. What Bruce calls gaps in awareness. I experience these gaps as discontinuities between my body and feeling it.
    And, I wonder if anyone else experiences this, but my blockage(s) will jump around as I dissolve it. It feels like it links into this constellation of blockages and that it circulates through this circuit of blockages. It is particularly frustrating because I’ve been idealizing what the blockage SHOULD be rather than what it is (i.e. well, if this isn’t what I think or have heard a blockage should be, then it is none of my business; e.g. if it feels like a blockage, to you, dissolve it…as I’ve recently heard Bruce say, the four conditions [strength, tension, contraction, something’s-not-quite-right] are training-wheels).
    In this way the blockage(s) feels very much not in my body but all over and beyond my body. It doesn’t feel like a headspace (which is a no-no in dissolving; you want to stay connected to feeling your body) but I could be wrong, it just becomes particularly difficult to prove that it isn’t since it has all the qualities of a headspace yet it is kinda thoughtless…and yet, it still feels like a blockage. As Charlie Brown would say, Argh!
    Simply because if dissolving these gaps puts you into a headspace, do you keep going? My feeling is yes as long as you aren’t pushing/forcing it and staying within your 70%.
    Because I can feel my body, just not terribly well due to these gaps; how do you dissolve these gaps if they disembody you? Bit of a Catch-22, so, I feel, if 70% leads you into these gaps and gives you this experience, you just have to keep going.
    Excellent! Good talk, me.
    (pause for laughter)
    It is like a healing crisis embodied in a blockage. You feel more out of it in order to resolve it, to let its particular brand of imbalance run its course you experience what it is doing to you.
    But I still compulsively doubt myself, is this the right thing? I tend to plateau here, but, with Taokua’s help, I can see this as something that is building up speed for dissolving progress (see his “How to achieve ‘Mastery'” thread in the qigong section and watch the George Leonard youtube video Mastery Keys…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWxts-QMuXA …this one). But I might be misinterpreting or misappropriating this notion. It might just be a bad habit.
    Yet, in some ways, aren’t bad habits your limitations that take time to overcome? isn’t the plateau the natural, gentle progress of overcoming limitations-as-bad-habits or correcting your bad habits? the very subtle ones that go unseen but with practice, they begin being corrected, yet, in the interim, you plateau as they are naturally, gently corrected.



    Thanks Cody I am experimenting with some things so I will share.

    My procedure is currently to select an area and scan through slowly several times, sometimes for 10 minutes. This helps to “xray” the area and really get to know it. The blockages often extend up to 9″ outside the body as well, and try to surround the blockages (which may be numb) with my awareness so that they are contained pockets. It is not good if you don’t surround it otherwise it can escape through an open side.

    And the most important aspect of the skill in my opinion is to really have the area in clear focus so you can really feel it. Otherwise you waste your time. Often you can get foggy and unclear during a session. But you must feel the area with clarity.

    Then using the physical body as a reference I begin on an area as normal and try to achieve the right mind state for dissolution. (Also I begin with 10 minutes of meditation and open up universal consciousness – if you can do that). The right mind state is an art, very relaxed, but also with a lot of intention. Still learning.

    But then I let go of the physical body and work with pure energy, I just feel the energy body and the blockages within and work with dissolving them. It seems far superior to let go of the physical body.

    As for your worries about certain things. These blockages are protecting themselves by saying negative / anxious thoughts. I think you will find that is where these thoughts come from. I suggest you expedite your mission and totally discard any worries. Just work, almost as if you have a patient (not you) and you do your best job. The discarding of thoughts feelings memories anxieties fears whilst remaining focussed is a very important skill. Do not believe them.

    What happens when a blockage moves ? Well, I suggest you try not moving, and work in that way for one session. And then I suggest you do move and follow and try that for one session. And then come to some conclusion about the efficiency of each alternative.

    What I do is I don’t move until the blockage has turned to water at least, and after that I do move; and often the next blockage is sort of pointed out to me, often nearby.

    Sometimes I feel a cross connection on the other side of my body, for instance when working on my neck I feel my eyes, and I ignore it.

    ( do not try this on any sensitive areas, head, heard, groin, dantien, spine etc… )

    One thing I have been experimenting with, and it is only an experiment is to change from irregular chaotic energy to pure energy. So with a blockage on the foot I feel the energy body, and then actualize a roaring rolling sea with giant wave all breaking irregularly, breaking up the energy, and then return to calm normal focussed loving dissolving awareness of the area. And change between the two, every few minutes. This does seem to work to break up the blockage.

    However you could theoretically damage the body, or release too much negative energy into your system, create chaotic energy inside you, and so on. But, if you have some skill with your mindstream then it might be helpful to dislodge areas that are not yielding.

    It’s just an experiment I am conducting on my foot right now.

    I was watching a video by someone suggesting bio-energetic shaking (or Osho Kundalini Meditation) which is another way to clear out energy in an easier way, whatever suits you.



    I used to be a student of the Gurdjieff Work of which our main practice was Self-Observation, which is similar to the mindstream practice. What I found caused the most changes and shifts was when I came across the arising of a feeling or felt-sense in my body that I would stay with until it shifted. This was generally easy at first but I came to more and more subtle places and the more overt emotional material stopped arising so easily.

    I find this way of meditation to be significantly more effective at processing experience than any other types I have practiced which usually cause me to simply space out. This practice is much more phenomenological in that you’re purely following your experience of what cathected material is stuck or blocked.

    Of course, all of our experiences and paths are different but I find that several things accelerate the process.

    Some sort of somatic, breathwork, bodywork, energy-movement work is necessary. I have practiced qigong/tai chi, Gurdjieff Movements in the past, now I simply practice deep stretching from Kit Laughlin’s method, and continuous connected breathing from a breathwork group I go to. I think that there’s a Taoist parallel to the western continuous breathing/Reichian breathwork technique.

    I always recommend some form of therapy to accelerate the clearing and integration of the emotional body. I’m an experiential psychotherapist and I can attest that there are many new school therapy schools that can heal a life time of trauma and emotional neurosis quite effectively. And sometimes with this deep emotional processing a person can touch on their true nature. I’ve seen it occur several times in my practice. But of course, psychotherapy does not go beyond emotional healing. But many meditators seem to find themselves stuck with their emotional past despite great efforts to meditate through it.

    The third and last thing, is learning Focusing and the concept of the Felt-Sense. I sort of combine this water meditation with Focusing as sensing on such a subtle level seems to bring up felt-senses that I wouldn’t have been able to access by the traditional Focusing technique, which is based in psychotherapy and again, is very efficient at working with the more overt emotional body but not the deeper implicit experiences and energy blockages.
    For example, I might be sitting and come across a “something’ in my whole chest that seems to be about something. I can explicitly or implicitly intend to know more about it without trying to change it. Then, in my experience, the contents of this may reveal a next experiential step, or something more will come. Sometimes just being with it with intention to know it without changing it will lead to a shift, or not. Maybe I’ll just find myself more in my body or in touch with this “something” throughout my day afterwards.

    Sometimes there’s a huge cognitive-emotional schema connected with something that is sensed that takes more overt work to work with, and sometimes nothing overt comes with it and it just shifts on its own on its own time. Bruce seems to be one of the very few who acknowledge that this material is not simply energetic, it is a constellation of psychological experiences impressed upon the system. It is the past, present in the body.

    Hope this helps.



    Thanks ride, that was most helpful.
    I’ve been trying what you’ve suggested and I found “ignoring” things to be effective. My nervous system must do something different with the word “ignore” because I found myself dissolving that which I was ignoring, or, there was at least a letting go.
    It does help to experiment.
    Something I found helpful was the counterintuitive idea of creating-blockages.
    The only thing I can figure is what it felt like; it felt like what were these amorphous muddy sort of blockages, that just wouldn’t dissolve or would suck me in, became crystallized into these brittle forms in which the slightest tap and successive taps would render it into a dust, in which it was very simple to dissolve, in that, unlike the heavy or sandy quality of red dust (as I experience it) this was like some kind of refined thing that would become more and more disparate with every bit of focus, where I find run of the mill red dust to be quite sturdy stuff, most days.
    To put it another way, that if a blockage won’t go beyond water, I try freezing it again (freezing and thawing) until the blockage starts to lose its cohesion. Kinda dancing between water and ice, back and forth, until it feels like it can release into steam/inner-space.
    Or maybe rather than the idea of freezing is that of dehydration. Dehydrating and rehydrating the blockage until it becomes brittle.
    One really does have to experiment with this stuff, at the end of the day. And I was surprised at the disparity between my understanding of words and how that plays out internally.



    Very interesting responses. It’s good to have contact with people who are working.

    Cody : yes good one. I think some real experimentation like you are doing is very important. What you are doing with the freezing / thawing method is exacerbating the situation, pushing and pulling it, and I think it is good – it’s what I also tried with the irregular waves / regular waves technique. And there is a sort of “mastery” that one can learn through exploring and experimenting with the energy in this way. It’s quite an adventure.

    David : I also have similar experience, Gurdjieff, psychotherapy, Focussing and there is much to be gained from all these things. I am trying to feel for a OneSolution essentially. Each of these disciplines in my opinion is a conjunction of energy / consciousness / intelligence. We basically learn about ourselves and how to adjust ourselves.

    My sense of having OneSolution is something like this : to remain fully open to existence. In meditation, I open the gate to Universal Consciousness, and then slowly feel around my energy body and undo the knots. The knots that separate me existentially from life. It can only be done slowly because each change needs to be “embodied”, meaning something inside has to learn a new wider field of consciousness. Your intelligence is learning a new way to exist, with one knot less. And then one knot less.

    Sometimes I work more feeling the body and its blockages, undoing, dissolving, opening.
    Sometimes more with consciousness.
    Sometimes more with the external.
    Or with the emotional.

    But it is a OnePractice. And I believe if you develop some skill at it then you simply become one with opening to existence. In all its areas. And then you simply are always deepening with life. The energy of life itself, that Light, enters you and you surrender to it, you declare your willingness and open the gates inside you.

    I feel this is heading towards the final configuration. A final way to hold yourself in life.

    Each technique is like a kind of workbench, you get it out and start working. But after a while you see it from a higher angle. You feel it from a wider existential perspective. Any workbench or frame of reference or idea or path is ultimately a wider prison for you, but it is sweet to taste to endless mystery of life directly. Like the perfume of beautiful lover.



    As a caveat, I’m not suggesting to create blockages or ignore blockages.
    But, by experimenting in this vein I discovered tricks for my dissolving practice hidden within my semantics.
    That I was just as afraid of the picture of the tiger as if it was a real tiger (the phrase “creating blockages” or “ignoring” rather than the action of doing this), yet, written on the back of the picture of a tiger, were some pretty good tips on how to dissolve.
    But, again, I’m NOT suggesting to create blockages and/or ignore them.



    Similarly with “freezing” and “dehydrating/rehydrating”, it is just more of my experiment with my own semantics.
    I am NOT suggesting that people freeze something they’ve taken the time to dissolve to water. I am also NOT suggesting anyone make themselves tense (as an allusion of taking the water out of a blockage; dehydrating/rehydraing) as a means to dissolve (or whatever I’m on about with this analogy).
    I’m just sharing my experimentation with my semantics.
    Please DON’T take it literally.



    Well put, ride.
    I’m just hoping I don’t misguide anyone with what I’m sharing, but, I’m thankful you see the value of it.

    Something I’ve been experiencing that I find interesting is that I’m always discovering who I am.
    I’ve had many moments where I feel I completely understand myself and grasp who I am, essentially, however, it leads persistently to a place where I am constantly surprised?, or maybe, discovering that I don’t really understand who i am. Or, that I do understand who I am, but there is a difference between understanding it and possessing it. Being in possession of who I am feels like perpetual discovery.
    I know Bruce talks about personal enlightenment at the seventh energetic body or the body of individuality and that this is essentially (pun intended) understanding who you are. If this is where it leads to, awesome!, however, I have a feeling that, with the whole notion of a circular path of development, that even then one is still understanding who you are at a deeper level. Maybe universal enlightenment or the realization of the 8th energetic body, the body of the Tao, is seeing yourself in everything and realizing that that is eternal, infinite self-discovery. Or, how Bruce alludes to, you see yourself in enough of everything else by transmuting yourself into these things until you become everything and thus the real schooling begins.
    It just feels like from my present perspective that any final attainment is still forever progressing toward self-discovery…not in a manner in which you don’t understand, in a need to recognize who you are to avoid some misfortune, but as something natural and constant.
    I know Taoism says that who we are is changeless (the empty changeless center of the bagua), it just feels to me, at present, that who we are or when we discover who we are, that too changes. But, whereas, before personal enlightenment it is a passive change (happening to you), afterwards it is active change initiated by you.

    Or, to put all that another way, that the heart of change being changelessness seems like that which is changeless changes the most. Or, because it is empty, it changes all the time but how could you tell? i.e. it is empty because it changes all the time and/but because it changes so frequently or constantly it is changeless. Also, being emptiness (the lack of experience), how could you tell if it was changing all the time? Isn’t the lack of experience a sure sign that a whole lot of change is going on all the time? so fast that nothing is there and that it leaves you with no experience.



    I’m totally getting to where you are. The outer forms feel more and more like wider prisons and I’m drawn to more organic and “pure” practices, that are more about being with my experience as it unfolds rather than to create some experience or do some technique. At one point I ignored the idea to begin from the top, but I found that I just space out and lose focus this way, so that’s about one main artificial thing that works in the practice. I’ve also come to the place where my work is more spontaneous and if I do a technique or form, it arises spontaneously to fit what is needed at that moment.

    Back to the original question, it seems to me that this is really without technique, only bringing awareness to what’s there to increasingly subtle levels.
    I’ve heard of paths where you go through deep inner sensing work to be able to discern what is of our nature and what is egoic or blocked. Maybe instead of simply focusing on blocks, maybe at times qualities of essential nature will arise and we simply feel into those experiences. Bruce talks about this in his CD’s on meditation. Maybe this is a part of the practice that keeps it from being an endless drudgery.

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