Longevity Breathing

[Anonymous]

Hi Folks,

Thanks to all those who regularly add to the content here- I always find it so useful to read everyone’s experience………..but hardly ever find the time to write anything myself.

I’ve got a question for those with some experience of Longevity Breathing. Are we basically covering the same ground as that course with the breathing aspects of the monthly lessons here?
Or would you recommend I undertake that course seperately?

………..On reflection it seems obvious to look at the breath as a seperate practice if I want to get the most out of it, but I’d be interested to hear what others think as regards the level of cross over we’re getting here- hope that makes sense :0

Thanks,
Saul

[Anonymous]

Hi, Saul.

These meditation lessons and longevity breathing are closely related but separate practices. I feel like the instruction we’re getting in this meditation circle is extremely valuable, interesting, and not really covered in any of bruce’s other materials. One of the things you notice if you do bruce’s various practices – taiji, Bagua, meditation, hsing-y, chi ging, etc. – is that they are all pieces of an integrated, coherent system. So there will obviously be overlapping areas, but to me, that’s a good thing. It also means that, over time, as you learn pieces of the system, you learn everything deeply and it all starts to make sense.

Best, matthew

[Anonymous]

Hi Matthew,
Thanks for your reply, its good to be reminded that this is a circular practice, I’ve been working with this sytem for almost 2 years and I’m just starting to actually feel the overlap between different parts of the practice, as opposed to theorising about it. I started off getting quite overwhelmed with all the different aspects of what is a very full, technically demanding and rich system, but with practice I’m starting to feel it as one coherent whole ( as I slowly learn to seperate and combine all those parts!)
My current issue with the breath work is how do I relax and lengthen my breath?
I’d like to attend Bruce’s Meditation retreat here in the uk next year and he recommends doing the Meditation Circle and the Taoist Breathing series as preparation. This was my original plan, but got a little confused as I saw so much crossover between the two. Anyway, I’m going to play with adding in an extra sitting or standing session each day to work on the breath seperately.
Do you have a seperate practice session just for Taoist Breathing? Any tips on how to relax and lengthen my breath? Sometimes it just happens for me -BLISS -but I have no control over it and, if I try I make it worse!
Do you have any plans to get over here for the retreat?- it sounds like a rare opportunity to work at such depth and it would be great to meet like minded souls

Thanks, I really appreciate your input with this forum.
Saul

[Anonymous]

Hi, Saul. I do practice the breathing every day as a separate practice. I have time on a commuter train every morning and have done my longevity breathing on that commute for 7 or 8 years now. The two CDs on Taoist breathing are enormously helpful.

To lengthen my breath, I actually created my own audio tapes with timed bells that I gradually increased over several months. I use music software (digital performer) that allows you to create pretty accurately timed audio recordings.

Also, I find that posture is really important to good breathing. It’s hard to have a relaxed long breath without the belly and central core moving freely.

I’m very lucky here in Boston: there are some really good senior teachers around and I took classes with them for many years. I’ve been working with bruce’s material for over 10 years now. I do a fair amount of traveling for my job (I’m off to China tomorrow), but I probably won’t get over there for the retreat.

Take care and good luck with your practice.

Matthew

[Anonymous]

Matthew it sounds like You’ve made great use of the Breathing cds; I’ve just ordered them and i hope to be able to lengthen my breath and progressively learn complete Taoist breathing.
I could see how it would serve as a great warmup to meditation .

[Anonymous]

I would not concentrate so much on breath length. The oceanic breath of Paul Pallante on this list is normally beyond reach.

the question if this course will be continued is answered by a seminar on presence and awareness this year in England.

I prefer the longvity dvd showing in many aspects this course especially the lying kidney and the lung parts going till in the tips of the lungs not found here.

The inner organs work is better here having as water method no 5 elemental cycle of the fire method as Michael Winn criticises in his costless ebook on inner smile as a false understanding.

Working with longvity costed me three years till remarkable effects later breaking als barriers of an unrelaxed abdomen.

Axel

[Anonymous]

Hi, Alex. Thanks for posting. I’m not sure I understand exactly what you mean in your reference to Michael Winn and the healing Tao practices. My own feeling is that their emphasis on fire methods and the specific practices themselves are not something I really want to attempt. Could you explain what you mean in reference to his work? Also, some details about your work with longevity breathing and your breakthrough would be very interesting. I find that the taoist breathing CDs, the longevity breathing DVD and the practices in this circle are all slightly different, though all valuable. Thanks

[Anonymous]

The link for the free ebook of Michael Winn is:

http://www.healingtaousa.com/winn_iswho.html

page 104s:

Q: What’s the difference between Inner Smile as a “Water &
Fire” dissolving technique and Tao water-only dissolving
methods?

The water-only method can be summarized as “ice dissolves to
water, water dissolves to gas”. This principle is applied to chi flow in the human body and psyche. It’s a perfectly legitimate method of
dissolving. It works on the principle of expansion and contraction,
mostly on progressive letting go of body density and expanding to a
vaporous (chi) state.

But the water-only method does not specifically activate the inner
Heart Spirit (which has a fiery, or at least warm nature) and does not directly invoke the yuan shen, the Original Spirit, as the source that is ultimately dissolving all false yin or false yang chi stuck in the body. So for myself, the water-only method does not penetrate as deep into my psyche as opening the smiling inner heart. This is why after several
years of testing water only methods, I went back to the Inner Smile.

I found for myself that the heart-felt quality of unconditional
acceptance evoked by the Inner Smile is missing from a purely chi-
based dissolving process. Spirit (shen) controls the quality of Energy (chi). You can have lots of energy dissolving, but still lack heart. It is the difference between martial and spiritual chi kung. The spiritual chi kung is sometimes called shengong, or “skill with spirit”. The Inner smile is really a form of shengong. It explores the relation between chi and shen. Shen shapes the feeling quality of the chi.

The water-only dissolving approach does not use Daoist five
element theory or open up communication with the five vital organ
spirits. It primarily uses Daoist yin-yang theory, but even here it does not employ the Microcosmic Orbit or other specific energy channels in the body like the Eight Extraordinary Vessels used in One Cloud’s Fusion of the Five Elements. In the water-only approach, everything in the body is simply a mass of ice, water or gas.
……
and now the special topics most interesting points lacking in the breathing methods of this meditation circle:

Yin-Yang theory and Five Element or Five Phase theory were two
parallel schools of early Chinese thought. They were integrated by
Tsou Yen’s School of Natural Cosmological Thought about 350 b.c.
During the Han Dynasty (about 200 bc) yin-yang and five phase theory were combined to form the Chinese calendar we have today.

The water-only method may be from an archaic yin-yang school that did not have five phase or body channel theory. Water-only enthusiasts sometimes claim their approach is the original and thus only true Tao method, based on Lao Tzu talking about the power of water and softness overcoming the hard. But there is abundant evidence these claims are historically false. Inner alchemy, the ancient root of all Daoist practices, always seeks equal balance of water and fire, yin and yang.

Daoism (Taoism) is known as the Water-course Way, and it honors
the water element as the first amongst the five elements. Its early
legends are often pro-feminine, focusing on the womb-birthing
function of the Tao. It is yin-yang theory, not yang-yin theory; the
emphasis is to always honor the feminine-yin first, because we live in a
physical body that is considered yin. But “water first” does not mean
“water only”. Cultivating yang and inner fire is equally important.

I find water-only dissolving method works best for excess fire types
(Type A personality) and for martial artists, who usually need lots of
water to balance out their “Mars” or fiery warrior which has a tendency to be over controlling of other people. It can be useful in the beginning for anybody who needs to slow down, which is a large percentage of the American population. But you can get the same or better results with yin body-dissolving practice of the Inner Smile.

Water-only is generally slower than the water & fire method of using
the heart fire. It is especially effective to combine the Inner Smile with
the Microcosmic Orbit and Fusion of the Five Elements to dissolve
deep core emotional issues. The Inner Smile in the beginning uses a
primarily very yin fire, soft and watery and nurturing, and gradually
adds more yang fire and expansiveness as needed. The other
techniques and channels used in inner alchemy allow you greater
precision in healing or in managing your energetic life.

Water-only is generally slower than the water & fire method of using
the heart fire. It is especially effective to combine the Inner Smile with
the Microcosmic Orbit and Fusion of the Five Elements to dissolve
deep core emotional issues. The Inner Smile in the beginning uses a
primarily very yin fire, soft and watery and nurturing, and gradually
adds more yang fire and expansiveness as needed. The other
techniques and channels used in inner alchemy allow you greater
precision in healing or in managing your energetic life.

My experience also with Mantak Chia later.

Axel

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the in-depth post Axel.

I think it’s important to note that the microcosmic orbit is part of the water method and Bruce lays it out in the taoist breathing cds. The difference between how he teaches it and how I first learned it in a fire school is important. Bruce teaches that if you have the alignments and posture correct and are doing the taoist breathing, the microcosmic orbit will happen of its own accord, not through visualization or imagination as in a fire method. Both the micro and macrocosmic orbit are part of the various qigong sets Bruce teaches, in particular Heaven and Earth.

While Bruce hasn’t publicly taught a specific internal alchemy method dealing with the 5 elements and organs, there is a lot of 5 element stuff in the Energy Arts materials. Bruce has written that after the foundation is laid with the water method, the techniques of the fire and water schools are similar. I suspect he just hasn’t taught the alchemical methods dealing with this, at least publicly, because they can be dangerous. I know I would want to be really careful doing any of the healing tao stuff unless under the direct supervision of a qualified teacher.

Anyway, there’s a lot to learn just getting this foundational meditation stuff together. I look forward to hearing from others on this topic.

[Anonymous]

Dear Matthew,

I do not sufficiently know the special approach by another sort of inner smile by an egg of light on the crown Michael Winn describes in the said book. It is different from the thymus gland and third eye approach of Mantak Chia in the courses I had with him though they meet in the later development where Mantak Chia uses also the crown upright sitting not bowing the with head with hands clasped. So not the crown but the location before it where after the forehead the hairs begin.

Michael Winn combines also Kan & Li with an exercise of Bruce not convincing me (why he does there not acknowledge the lineageholdership of Bruce showing him the exercise I do not understand)

They have great difficulties to deliver teachers and groups training the techniques despite high certifications and seniorship rarely or never giving courses till Mantak Chia comes to them.It may be different with a dissenting line getting nevertheless their titles and giving the courses and titles themselves.

I myself trained the materials for some years keeping them clean and successful by Tibetan lamas but avoiding mostly their fire methods and tummo of blazing fires. Mantak Chia in his new healer turn uses fire methods with which obviously he burnt his energyfield to an ugly soup. I got a similar effect by a book with his three healing fires beginning to melt buddha figures in my aura. So I bought the
cd for learning it correctly. Well, he did not teach exactly this piece hinting to the book for doing it himself.

But I cannot consent that Kan & Li is a dangerous fire method. They are correct in saying that by mixing fire and water getting a damp and steaming vapour like putting a cauldron with water over fire is no pure fire method though it gets hotter by the time trained. I Ging with the hexagram Kan & Li ignites the steam between these components or certain Qigong have a steaming vessel on the head.

Axel
So there is no big danger as most people do not train the courses visited

[Anonymous]

Hi Matthew,
I’ve got the CDs and will be starting the lessons soon. I was wondering if there was a particular way I should be going about the lessons considering what we’ve been learning in the meditation circle.
For example, should I follow the CDs exactly and do the shorter breaths to begin with and not fully engage my breathing or start where I am in terms of breathing ability and length of breath?
I don’t think I’ll be able to do a custom audio recording as you described ( which sounds ideal), but I do have an Enso pearl and anticipate using it to time my breaths.
Do you have any other advice in practicing the lessons in the cd and in relation to the meditation circle ?
Thank you .

[Anonymous]

Hi, Kevin.

Since you’re doing the meditation circle, you would need to perhaps work with the Taoist Breathing CDs in a different way. I used them for a number of years during my train commute. I have about a 35 minute ride and I have a pair of noise canceling headphones. I worked through the 2 sets of 12 exercises over quite a long time. Still do the final practice of the CDs every morning during my commute.

Where you end up is similar, but not the same as this meditation circle. I recommend you listen all the way through to both CDs and see what you think. There is a lot of overlap, but there is also material distinct to both sets of material. the work with the day mai and opening and closing the etheric body in the CDs is very powerful.

You might want to keep the practices separate in this way: finish the meditation circle practices through month 16 so that they are really stabilized. Then work through the CDs, focusing on the things that aren’t part of the meditation circle. You have to take my advice with many grains of salt: I’m not a teacher or advanced student of Bruce’s. I’m just working through it like you are.

I hope you don’t feel I gave you bad advice about getting the CDs. They are designed to go with his book, which is really useful. At some point, I will resume the dissolving practice by reviewing his other meditation CDs and books. I think my practice will be a lot stronger.

Please keep in touch and let me know how it goes. I hope other folks might chime in with their thoughts.

Take care,
Matthew

[Anonymous]

Thanks Matthew ,
I didn’t take your advice on the CDs bad in whatsoever. I intended on picking them up anyhow.
So, it sounds like you recommened saving the CDs until I’m finished the meditation circle. The only problem I could see with that is…..resisting the temptation!!!!
I just began month 13 and so I’ve got the summer at least to finish the circle. I was thinking of using the CDs separately as a warmup to Chigung or possibly meditation. What do you or anyone else think?
Thanks!

[Anonymous]

…..personally, I practice longevity breathing separate from my meditation practice – whilst intellectually, kinaesthetically and energetically feeling the the similarities, synergies and differences. Each also contributes to the other strands of my own practice (Tai Chi and Qigong). Re. the discussion on Bruce’s approach and system compared with that derived from other lineages, I’m looking for that which is most safe, most effective, most accessible, most comprehensive and most comprehensible. Whilst I enjoy reading Mantak Chi and other’s materials, I find Bruce’s more credible and accommodating to the particular way that I’m wired.

[Anonymous]

The worth of a meditative system is shown by the change and transformation of a person training it.naturally it depends also from the abilities a person brings into the system.

Seen from this angle Mantak Chia is mostly the same since he started seeing his videos. It is really admirable how consequently he built up from the scratch his selling business of his products split in many pieces and books each aimed to attract further customers so that the newer books tell the myth of his born taoist mastership drinking his healthy urine in his Christian family. About one third of each new book but mostly giving certificates for some healing light techniques as a healer taken till direct quotes in his books from another master.

What he changed often is his clothing and outer appearance now more and more in chinese clothes as if being an old sage from the holy mountains.

The other way round Bruce Frantzis having his identity but also difficult breaks and downfalls in his life and crises this way. Seeing videos and materials of him you see a development refining the person to a more and more serene mood with potential to further maturation without losing his origin from where he started as a person talking very much and intensely full of energy.

This is no choice for the one or other way, but breathing and relaxing the body and some dissolving became more important as snuffing the spine upwards for forming a microcosmic orbit in a forced way by orgasmic upward draw more in a kundalini style not really relaxing the body and discharging the tensions and blockages in it. The fusions do not cleanse and transform sufficiently the emotions though the healing sounds are good.. To Kan & Li I lost the track by his crazy burning the energy field for coming higher seeing how he lost the original purity of the former tapes. Now you find pieces of it in many courses I am checking from time to time.

Axel

Axel

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